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Stéphane Garrelie
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Posted: 25 July 2006 at 8:21am | IP Logged | 1  

Anyway this looks very much like a misunderstanding.

Maybe Dave doesn't remember the original conversation, and maybe Paty wasn't there?

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Darren Taylor
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Posted: 25 July 2006 at 8:22am | IP Logged | 2  

Am I miss reading this but didn't John say he said it -to- Daves face, whilst they were both sitting in Roger Sterns then office?

Seems like two stories are now getting combined?
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Stéphane Garrelie
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Posted: 25 July 2006 at 8:24am | IP Logged | 3  

Originaly yes. But for what i understand Paty saw JB post it here (or on the previous Byrne board) when Dave was at the hospital.
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Luke Smyth
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Posted: 25 July 2006 at 8:39am | IP Logged | 4  

My understanding of the root of this "bad blood" is that the fault lies squarely at the feet of Paty Cockrum.  She has recounted the tale of having to talk someone down from giving JB a beating during the seventies in the Marvel offices because he apparently pissed them off.  According to Paty JB pissed everybody off in the Marvel offices back then.

In recent interviews Dave has alluded to this when explaining why he continued to do the covers for X-Men and stayed on the series a few issues more than he had intended, to annoy John Byrne, to aggravate him.  In the recent Comics Creators on X-Men book he admits that it was a bit malicious on his part continuing to do the covers. 

There is also a story of JB at a Convention, standing in front of Dave Cockrum using "the Byrne stare" whatever the hell that is, again recounted by Paty.

The recent banning of JB from the benefit book for Dave was instigated by, once again, Paty.  She took offence at a comment that was basically describing the technique Dave uses to achieve his finished pencils, a technique John Buscema references in the How To Draw Comics The Marvel Way book.  How that can be taken as a derogatory comment on Dave's art is beyond me.

Although JB encouraged us to buy the book anyway, I admit that I did not, I found his treatment at the hands of the Cockrums to be intolerable not to say more than a little vindictive.  I am a fan of Dave Cockrum as an artist and creator but in this instance I found his actions either directly or indirectly dissappointing.

Having read pretty much every interview JB has conducted over the last thirty years I am only aware of his oft repeated, great admiration for the talents of Dave Cockrum.

I could be nasty and make reference to the fact that Paty has a blinkered view of things and how Magneto's helmet may be contributing to this condition but I will say that when it comes to JB, Paty is just pathalogically petty.

So for me it all seems to stem from the fact that JB was an arrogant sob who pissied off everybody at the Marvel offices in the seventies, according to Paty, that is.  The following is a quote regarding JB (circa 1996) from someone who would have been in the Marvel offices during that time.  I find his comments sum up JB much more honestly than Paty.

"My impression of John Byrne is that he's a throwback to Kirby, with all the elements of the modern artist.  John Byrne is a perfect personification of the comic artist of this generation, one who is devoted, caring, not in it to make a quick buck, not in it for a temporary period until he goes on to something else.  I'm sure if he gets a movie offer, he'll do it, but he has never abandoned his need to be a comic artist"

Don't sound like the words of someone who was pissed off by JB.  Oh, that quote is from John Romita Sr who unlike Paty doesn't seem to have an axe to grind.

 

 

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Robert Last
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Posted: 25 July 2006 at 9:01am | IP Logged | 5  


JB, I noticed in a post by Dave Cockrum he makes a comment about you saying something insensitive about Joe Quesada going to Florida when his mother died, and consequently getting banned at Marvel.  I haven't heard anything about this?
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Stéphane Garrelie
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Posted: 25 July 2006 at 9:02am | IP Logged | 6  

Anyway...

Letting the "bad blood" thing off for the time of a post....

I'ld like to say that Dave had an operation of the cataract on the left eye last week and that it went well.

The Cockrums could go at the recent Heroes Con too, where Dave was abble to do 3 sketches and where he signed lot of autografs.

His health still isn't very good, but there seems to be some improvement.



Edited by Stéphane Garrelie on 25 July 2006 at 9:03am
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Darren Taylor
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Posted: 25 July 2006 at 9:02am | IP Logged | 7  

"Originaly yes. But for what i understand Paty saw JB post it here (or on the previous Byrne board) when Dave was at the hospital."

Ahh, right so her husband is in hospital and she happens to check out the forum of someone she doesn't like!? I think someone tipped her off and she's come here with the mindset of finding something she's not going to like...as such she has misread a comment or it's intention.

I doubt that JB has had a bad word to say on Dave, however I'm happy for the post she saw to be pointed out...if she's still a member, perhaps the same "prodder" might want to direct her here once again to clarify.

-Darren.
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Darren Taylor
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Posted: 25 July 2006 at 9:04am | IP Logged | 8  

"His health isn't still very good, but there seems to be some improvement."

This is excellent news!
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Stéphane Garrelie
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Posted: 25 July 2006 at 9:05am | IP Logged | 9  

Thats probably something like that, but i say that on memory. I'll have to check.
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Darren Taylor
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Posted: 25 July 2006 at 9:07am | IP Logged | 10  

No ill will Stephane but I've been blind sided by my own willingness to condemn someone before and it always, in the end, leaves the one with the blinkers on looking the fool.
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Stéphane Garrelie
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Posted: 25 July 2006 at 9:38am | IP Logged | 11  

mmm... re reading it, it wasn't the origin of the problem since in 2003. It seems Dave was already at odds with JB, but:

  In 2004, while Dave was in the hospital fighting for his life, it seems that JB made a comment about Dave's work:

Byrne's comment according to Dave was: "Well, if you put enough lines down, SOME of them are BOUND to be in the right place" (2004/Byrne Website.)

Dave took it as a crack about his work, and it "really pissed him" and infuriated Paty (that's why Paty didn't want JB in the book.).

I take this from Dave's answers to a fan.

 

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Stéphane Garrelie
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Posted: 25 July 2006 at 9:45am | IP Logged | 12  

Well Darren, Paty seems to have, like JB, a temper of her own. So i won't think that she was very objective. Most of all if she saw the thing as having the potential to hurt the man she love.

 

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