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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 135963
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| Posted: 25 July 2006 at 9:48am | IP Logged | 1
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I noticed in a post by Dave Cockrum he makes a comment about you saying something insensitive about Joe Quesada going to Florida when his mother died, and consequently getting banned at Marvel. I haven't heard anything about this?**** I recall Quesada using his mother's death as an excuse for his Daredevil work being late. At the time I noted that if the work had been on a realistic schedule to begin with, this family loss would have had no impact on the timeliness of that work.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 135963
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| Posted: 25 July 2006 at 9:50am | IP Logged | 2
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Byrne's comment according to Dave was: "Well, if you put enough lines down, SOME of them are BOUND to be in the right place" (2004/Byrne Website.)*** As noted, this is a misquote, and even if the words were rendered correctly, they would be out of context.
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Darren Taylor Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 22 April 2004 Location: Scotland Posts: 6068
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| Posted: 25 July 2006 at 10:00am | IP Logged | 3
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Was the "Some" and the "Bound" capitalised in the original post can you recall John as it seems to alter the emphisis.
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Stéphane Garrelie Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 05 August 2005 Location: France Posts: 4283
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| Posted: 25 July 2006 at 10:13am | IP Logged | 4
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For the record Dave wrote "In 2004,[...], Byrne made a crack about my work on his website [...]: he said, *insert quote*"
Thats me who add "(2004/Byrne Website.)" at the end. I rephrase and paraphrase to not paste Dave's post here.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 135963
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| Posted: 25 July 2006 at 10:20am | IP Logged | 5
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And, as noted (is this horse dead yet?) the so-called "crack" is out of context, misquoted -- and the actual quote is something I had said to Dave years earlier, which at the time he found true and amusing.It would seem obvious, at this point, that no one checked what I actually wrote, which was a compliment to Dave's pencils. Unless we're on the Bizzaro World, where calling something "gorgeous" would be considered an insult.
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Stéphane Garrelie Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 05 August 2005 Location: France Posts: 4283
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| Posted: 25 July 2006 at 10:24am | IP Logged | 6
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We, regular posters here, don't doubt that JB; but this misunderstanding may be an explanation for a part of the bad blood between you and the Cockrums.
Edited by Stéphane Garrelie on 25 July 2006 at 10:32am
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Paul Greer Byrne Robotics Security

Joined: 18 August 2004 Posts: 14203
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| Posted: 25 July 2006 at 10:26am | IP Logged | 7
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One horrible thing about this internet is that people seem to hold everything they read on it as the truth. People hardly take into consideration that things can be misquoted, misread, and misunderstood. This information comes out so quickly, it seems we are too busy reacting to the bits we pick out rather than understanding what others are saying in the entire context.
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Marcel Chenier Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 19 May 2006 Location: United States Posts: 2723
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| Posted: 25 July 2006 at 5:48pm | IP Logged | 8
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There should be a statement every time every internet user logs on that goes
something like "be advised that virtually everything you are about to read,
see, or hear, will in some way be out of its appropriate and original
context--including this message".
And they say modern technology improves communication . . .
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Frank Lauro Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 27 February 2006 Posts: 1461
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| Posted: 25 July 2006 at 6:28pm | IP Logged | 9
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Me: Is Paty Cockrum the mysterious "Paty" who penciled AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #264?
Joe Zhang: She's no mystery. In fact, she's quite vocally against JB (among many other people) on her husband's little tract of the Web.
She was a mystery to me for 20 years, since her first name was all that appeared in the credit box, and this was pre-Google. I didn't know until reading this thread that she was Cockrum's wife. I don't keep tabs on Dave Cockrum or his "little tract of the web".
And I agree with Joe Hollon that this issue was pretty lousy in terms of story -- it was an obvious and unwelcome fill-in. I did like the way Paty handled the black costume, though. [shrug] Diff'rent strokes.
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Jason Czeskleba Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 30 April 2004 Posts: 4639
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| Posted: 25 July 2006 at 7:41pm | IP Logged | 10
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Luke Smyth wrote:
| My understanding of the root of this "bad blood" is that the fault lies squarely at the feet of Paty Cockrum. |
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You guys are making Paty into some kind of Yoko Ono figure here. If Dave has hard feelings toward John Byrne, any "fault" lies with Dave as he is responsible for formulating his own opinions.
I've read comments from Dave Cockrum where he has said that he never got along that well with JB and found him "arrogant." So I imagine anything he "hears" JB has said through the internet is filtered through that preconceived opinion/sensibility. He's more likely to believe bad Byrne stories because they fit in with the opinion he already has formed based on his own experiences.
Not that it's any of my business, but I'm surprised neither side in this misunderstanding has picked up a phone.
Edited by Jason Czeskleba on 25 July 2006 at 7:42pm
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James C. Taylor Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 4705
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| Posted: 25 July 2006 at 8:20pm | IP Logged | 11
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I used to have saved the entire text of JB's reply, which IIRC correctly, used Carmine Infantino and Dave Cockrum as the examples, in a discussion about Jack Kirby. Since the term accurately describes how I draw as well, it absolutely stunned me that Paty, Dave, or anyone else took offense to it and I took to posting the full text (mea culpa) to refute charges that JB was insulting anyone. It would be as if you said JB insulted George Perez because he said his pencils were so tight you could just pour ink in the grooves.
Don't folks have things better to do?
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 135963
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| Posted: 28 July 2006 at 7:12am | IP Logged | 12
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Last night I was discussing this matter, in passing, with an old friend. He recalled some details I had long forgotten.It was, my friend reminded me, a year or so after I took over penciling UNCANNY X-MEN that Dave Cockrum took his first swipe at me. It was in an interview in a fanzine, and Dave noted that I had changed the design of Colossus' boots, and that this was silly. "Wouldn't they flap around?" My friend reminded me that, at the time, I had said I was not going to respond to this comment since, in fact, I had not changed anything at all about Colossus (except as lies within the province of my style of drawing being different from Dave's), and all Dave had to do was look at an issue to see this. It was actually Cyclops' boots I had modified from Dave's redesign.* This I felt quite comfortable doing, since I was "restoring" Cyke's boots to how they'd been before Dave came to the character. Looking back, my friend suggested that Cockrum's annoyance with me probably sprang from this very small error. Of course, he would have been peeved to have been removed from UNCANNY -- I would have, too! -- but the idea that I was redesigning characters he had created would have especially stuck in his craw. Bordering on mind reading, of course, and with a lot of water gone under that particular bridge. Still, it made a kind of sense.
* As I have noted elsewhere, the only thing I didn't like about the "All New, All Different" X-Men was Dave's redesign of Cyclops. I found the new visor clumsy and bulky and somewhat hard to draw (there were plans afoot to change it back to the old visor, but I left the book before these were implemented), and I thought the bucaneer boots were far too flamboyant for staid ol' Scott Summers. I asked if I could change the boots, and the Powers That Were said "No!". But Roger Stern, who was the editor at the time, had an idea: he suggested that I change the boots gradually, slowly shrinking and tapering the tops until they became the versions I wanted. This I did, and you can see it happening over the span of about a year, starting circa issue 124.
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