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Rick Whiting
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 April 2004
Posts: 2306
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| Posted: 02 July 2026 at 3:52am | IP Logged | 1
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One of the things that ticks me off about modern day comic fans (specifically adult readers who have been reading comics for years) and comic pros is that they are so quick to accept (and insist) that retcons made to Marvel and DC characters and their stories remain cannon, but they are oppose to making those same retcons non cannon even if they hated those retcons. They insist that a retcon should only be fixed/undone by giving an in story explanation instead of just retconning, ignoring, and never mentioning it again. It's insane and doesn't make any sense.
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Brian Price
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 June 2012
Posts: 103
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| Posted: 02 July 2026 at 11:54am | IP Logged | 2
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My thought is that it's more about resistance to change. The newer readers encounter the retcons first and think that's the way the story should be. Older readers first encountered the original version of the story and think that's the way it should be instead of the retcon that followed. Neither of them want(ed) the story to change from the way they first encountered it.
To me it's similar to how younger people think the Jim Lee era is the best version of the X-Men, when it's obviously the Cockrum/Byrne/Cockrum/Smith era. ;-)
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 02 July 2026 at 12:27pm | IP Logged | 3
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The average lifespan of a fan/reader was thought to be around five years when I got into the Biz. “We lose them when they discover girls” was the mantra. In that era, fans were less likely to notice “retcons”. When I read (fresh off the newsstand) the first appearance of Supergirl, it did not occur to me what a radical alteration of continuity she represented. But as readers stuck around longer, they could not help but spot the changes.
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Rick Whiting
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 April 2004
Posts: 2306
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| Posted: 02 July 2026 at 5:50pm | IP Logged | 4
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Marvel and DC should just print a statement once a year in all of the books telling fans that what is or isn't cannon will be retconned from time to time without any in story explanation. They should also say that if you as a long time adult reader don't like it, then we are sorry and you should move onto other comics that are more suitable for and appealing to your adult tastes. Just make it clear from the jump that the Marvel and DC superhero comics are supposed to be timeless stories for all ages that present the illusion of change.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 02 July 2026 at 6:11pm | IP Logged | 5
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While at DC I pitched a series called BATMAN AND ROBIN. It was intended to be an “entry level” book, simple and straightforward, targeting new readers—kids—who were not emersed in all the impenetrable stuff that, even post CRISIS, still clung to the characters. I was told “We think of Batman as one of our adult books.”
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Evan S. Kurtz
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 04 July 2022
Location: Canada
Posts: 374
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| Posted: 02 July 2026 at 8:30pm | IP Logged | 6
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I have to admit I’m totally over the idea of worrying about what’s “canon” or not in comics. The persistent effort of companies trying to attract readers through “events,” “fresh starts,” “reboots,” “deaths,” “resurrections,” etc., has made modern comics impenetrable to me in terms of trying to keep straight whatever’s happened beforehand. Or maybe I’m just salty because I started reading at the beginning of the post-Crisis canon, and all they ever did since then was muddle stuff up to the point where none of the characters represent anything identifiable to anyone with any kind of invested interest.
Which isn’t to say I can’t or won’t enjoy a story. But these days, there’s nothing in a story that’s going to convince me that I need to read whatever happens next.
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Brian Miller
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 28 July 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 32094
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| Posted: 02 July 2026 at 10:34pm | IP Logged | 7
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I was told “We think of Batman as one of our adult books.”
******
Thanks, Cousin Frank.
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Rick Whiting
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 April 2004
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| Posted: 03 July 2026 at 4:45am | IP Logged | 8
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I was told “We think of Batman as one of our adult books.”
_______________________
That right there sums up what's wrong with the Big 2 and why there books only sell to a very narrow and shrinking audience of aging adult fans.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
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| Posted: 03 July 2026 at 11:16am | IP Logged | 9
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When I was at DC there was great excitement that a recent survey had shown the books were appealing to an older audience.I pointed out it was the SAME audience, just getting older.
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Michael Penn
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 April 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 13247
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| Posted: 03 July 2026 at 12:32pm | IP Logged | 10
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Personally anecdotal: my older son, 33, grew up not being into comicbooks, neither he nor his friends, and my younger son, 18, as well -- and now my grandson, 3... he too, it seems. I suppose superheroes will outlive the medium whence they originated?
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Evan S. Kurtz
Byrne Robotics Member
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Location: Canada
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| Posted: 03 July 2026 at 10:03pm | IP Logged | 11
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Michael, my son just turned 12, loves reading, and to my knowledge has never so much as held a traditional comic book in his hands. He’s read and enjoyed graphic novels, but nothing collected from anything published monthly by comics companies for general audiences.
To be fair, I only really got into Marvel and DC titles when I also was 12, but in his case I don’t see things changing.
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Jack Caleb Day
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 07 June 2025
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 18
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| Posted: 05 July 2026 at 2:33pm | IP Logged | 12
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It's interesting reading this stuff because I'm 27 and grew up in the 2000's. But the dense continuity and metatext is what drew me to the medium and genre DC and Marvel create. I always loved that there were decades worth of stories with detailed backstories and learning about how real factors surrounding the titles affected their metafiction was fascinating. I remember reading the DC Comics Wikipedia page as an 8 year old and being as enthralled by the publication history as by the fictional lore. So for me it's strange that a sizable chunk of people consider these elements to be detrimental rather than positive towards the medium.
One thing I do think however is that rather than aiming towards the widest market; DC and Marvel should aim their comics at the market of people who want those things from their stories and care about the crafted subworlds. The average person probably doesn't care much about those things, but the specific people who've always made up much of comics fandom do. Literally any medium of entertainment can seem difficult to get into if you don't already know the history and current events of the medium, but I don't hear people making these same claims about other formats. As someone who doesn't care about Football or Ballet, I would find it easier to digest those things were the records wiped, previous events ignored and the formats techniques modified to be more palatable to me. But that is not what fans of those things want and would likely make them furious, so I don't hear anyone advocating for those things.
Edited by Jack Caleb Day on 05 July 2026 at 2:35pm
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