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Mark Haslett Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 19 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 6887
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Posted: 12 May 2025 at 10:05pm | IP Logged | 1
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Casey: Matt - I'm with you on this. I've seen too many instances personally and nationally that put the lie to that phrase.
***
I have probably seen 1000 people run stop signs. Does that mean it’s OK to run stop signs?
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Mark Haslett Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 19 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 6887
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Posted: 12 May 2025 at 10:09pm | IP Logged | 2
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Casey: Denial is not just a river in Egypt.
**
Neither is refusing to try to understand someone who is speaking very plainly.
Principles are believed in. They may not be practiced perfectly, but they remain guiding principles.
When the principle that no one is above the law is something we no longer believe in, then we are guiding ourselves toward the fate we seem to all want to avoid.
The rich and powerful have always been able to evade the law to some degree. The poor and the wretched have always taken the brunt of injustice.
But abandoning principles is not a way to rally people to fight for justice.
Asking other people to officially refrain from saying that no one is above the law rubs me the wrong way. Your mileage may vary, of course, but I like it around here too much to not say something when I see something like this.
Edited by Mark Haslett on 12 May 2025 at 10:11pm
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James Woodcock Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 21 September 2007 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 8096
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Posted: 12 May 2025 at 10:33pm | IP Logged | 3
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I think there is a difference between No one SHOULD be above the law - which is the ideal
And
No one IS above the law - which has been proven false thanks to the Supreme Court.
I believe that no one SHOULD be above the law, but I do not believe that no one IS above the law - because Trump IS above the law with regards to everything he does if carried out as part of the office of The President of the United States.
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Matt Hawes Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 16605
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Posted: 12 May 2025 at 10:49pm | IP Logged | 4
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Exactly, James.
Maybe Mark misunderstands me and thinks I don't agree with the principle? My argument isn't that it we as a people shouldn't hold that view, it's that in practice, it clearly isn't the case.
And as for abandoning principles...? I never said I abandoned my principles, and I never said I don't agree that nobody should be above the law. What I said was that that's not the reality, so I am tired of it being said in instances like the one that sparked this conversation to begin with.
I might hope and believe in an idea that everyone should love one another and has each other's best interests at heart, but that's not the reality, and never will be. And neither is the REALITY that nobody is above the law.
Anyone who disagrees, I hope you can laugh in my face when Trump serves time for his crimes. If that happens, we'd both actually be winners. But I don't see that ever happening.
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Mark Haslett Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 19 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 6887
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Posted: 12 May 2025 at 11:29pm | IP Logged | 5
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Matt: Maybe Mark misunderstands me and thinks I don't agree with the principle?
**
Look, I'm not trying to insult your intelligence and say "You must mean what you appear to be saying". But when I ask someone to officially stop using a phrase, I no longer believe that phrase.
The phrase "No one is above the law" is a principle.
When in history has it ever been literally true? At what point in the future do you foresee that it will one day be literally true?
What purpose does it serve to stop using the phrase?
No one is above the law. No matter how many shitty illegal things they get away with-- the law should be applied to all equally. That is what Rule of Law means.
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Brian Miller Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 28 July 2004 Location: United States Posts: 31545
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Posted: 13 May 2025 at 2:28am | IP Logged | 6
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No one is above the law. No matter how many shitty illegal things they get away with-- the law should be applied to all equally. That is what Rule of Law means. ********* And it’s not. Dear god, man. Even the Supreme Court has even agreed that Donald Trump is above the law and it doesn’t apply to him at all.
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Conrad Teves Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 28 January 2014 Location: United States Posts: 2305
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Posted: 13 May 2025 at 2:55am | IP Logged | 7
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It's worth recalling at times like this, that much of human society is just an agreement. A treaty.
The Law, in this case the Constitution, is an agreement between the government and the governed. Its authority is rooted in that agreement, that it must be followed because the government must.
When the government does not follow it, it weakens that agreement. If done enough eventually their only authority is their weapons and the threat of death on the assumption that there can be no similar effective pushback (ha!). They seem to be exercising that threat more and more.
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Mark Haslett Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 19 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 6887
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Posted: 13 May 2025 at 4:27am | IP Logged | 8
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Brian: And it’s not. Dear god, man. Even the Supreme Court has even agreed that Donald Trump is above the law and it doesn’t apply to him at all.
** But before that horrible day, no one was above the law, right? When was it exactly that no one was above the law?
Or is a it a principle? Like I said in the post you didn't bother to read?
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Michael Penn Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 12 April 2006 Location: United States Posts: 12902
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Posted: 13 May 2025 at 11:55am | IP Logged | 9
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No doubt that Trump as President has an enormous range of sanctioned power (i.e., not illegal), even more this second time around (with an expanded principle of immunity), and continues to maintain a considerable degree of political protection in his party, who for now slimly control Congress.
As of this date, Trump has not been convicted of any crime, yet by fiat avoided sentenced punishment. He has lost many civil cases and been forced to pay considerable amounts of money or post bonds in the millions and has suffered other legal debilitations, before, during, and after his presidency. (Thirty years ago I was actually a lawyer on the main legal team in his divorce from Ivana and in the cases concerning his failed Taj Mahal and other business ventures -- he certainly was subject to the law then.)
Trump is incredibly powerful and protected. Does that mean he's "above the law" in every conceivable circumstance?
Edited by Michael Penn on 13 May 2025 at 12:02pm
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Matt Hawes Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 16605
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Posted: 13 May 2025 at 6:31pm | IP Logged | 10
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Michael: "...As of this date, Trump has not been convicted of any crime..."
He was convicted of 34 felony accounts, which he will never serve time for because, yes, he is above the law.
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Michael Penn Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 12 April 2006 Location: United States Posts: 12902
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Posted: 13 May 2025 at 6:46pm | IP Logged | 11
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Matt, please consider my entire statement.
Edited by Michael Penn on 13 May 2025 at 6:46pm
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Brian Miller Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 28 July 2004 Location: United States Posts: 31545
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Posted: 13 May 2025 at 7:22pm | IP Logged | 12
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This is why the democrats lost. We can’t even agree on our hatred of Trump…
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