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Brian Miller
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 28 July 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 31774
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| Posted: 21 March 2025 at 4:25pm | IP Logged | 1
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Other than reading GSXM 1 in the X-MEN SPECIAL EDITION book ( which I
have no idea how I even got), I never knew anything about Jean when I
started reading X-MEN with 172. My introduction to all that was thru Smith’s
pencil.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 135221
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| Posted: 21 March 2025 at 4:32pm | IP Logged | 2
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What an appalling time to “meet” the character.
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Mark Haslett
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 7049
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| Posted: 21 March 2025 at 5:33pm | IP Logged | 3
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One of the great healing properties of "Elsewhen" was having such a wonderful return for Jean Grey. The REAL Jean Grey walked again and -- considering what had happened to her - that is some kind of miracle.
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James Woodcock
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 September 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 8307
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| Posted: 22 March 2025 at 5:25am | IP Logged | 4
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As with others, no disparaging of Paul Smith’s ability.
But when that first panel of Madelyne was published, as a major cliff
hanger, my brothers and I had a good debate as to who it actually was.
We landed on Jean purely because it was a cliff hanger and she had red
hair. But she looked nothing like Jean so we decided to wait for
confirmation.
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Athanasios Kollias
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 27 September 2021
Location: Greece
Posts: 340
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| Posted: 22 March 2025 at 10:58am | IP Logged | 5
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I consider Madelyne one of the most ridiculous and non-sensical stories Claremont ever wrote. All the evidence to links to Jean/Phoenix (the date she survived the crash, that she knew details about Scott she coudn't have known, that not only did she look exactly like Jean but sounded like her as well etc) were forgotten from one issue to the next, Scott married her in, what, a couple of months, The damage to the character of Scott was immesurable. The fact that for some reason Madelyne was supposedly the end-game for Scoot was hypocritical. I am pretty sure the only reason Claremont didn't like JB's Jean rebirth was that it messed his own plans, which I imagine would have been brought to play waaaay later...
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Mark Haslett
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 7049
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| Posted: 22 March 2025 at 1:09pm | IP Logged | 6
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Scott married her within a few issues.
I know this wasn’t the intent, but in comic time, that generally amounts to a
few days!
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 135221
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| Posted: 22 March 2025 at 2:50pm | IP Logged | 7
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One of the lesser battles I had with Chris was over his insistence on playing the books in real time. An early example was Colleen Wing being captured—and tortured—by Angar the Screamer. It took 9 issues of Iron Fist’s twice quarterly book to tell that story, and Chris maintained that represented a year of real time.
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ron bailey
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 October 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 1273
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| Posted: 22 March 2025 at 3:29pm | IP Logged | 8
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... The damage to the character of Scott was immesurable.......... I remember just assuming at the time that some sort of mind control was taking place, like Mastermind had returned or someone had taken his place, or a shape shifter was acting as Jean/Madelyne to mess with the team dynamics or something. All horrible hackneyed ideas, but nowhere near as convoluted as what actually played out.
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Vinny Valenti
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 8351
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| Posted: 22 March 2025 at 5:26pm | IP Logged | 9
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"I never knew anything about Jean when I started reading X-MEN with 172. My introduction to all that was thru Smith’s pencil."
---
My first comic was one issue before you! It was the Walt Simonson guest issue when Rogue joined. But Walt used Smith's model for Madelyne so it was basically the same thing.
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Jean Voulis
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 05 February 2025
Location: Canada
Posts: 113
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| Posted: 22 March 2025 at 9:13pm | IP Logged | 10
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Ron - wasn't the retcon of the retcon that Mr. Sinister was indeed influencing Scott via Maddy the clone/Goblin Queen...good lord what am I typing ? :)
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Athanasios Kollias
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 27 September 2021
Location: Greece
Posts: 340
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| Posted: 23 March 2025 at 10:14am | IP Logged | 11
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I know this wasn’t the intent, but in comic time, that generally amounts to a few days!++ In caption it's stated they had more time together, like flying together for a few weeks plus all the time between issues that has been from hours to weeks. It's certainly not days, but it's not like they were together for, say, 6 months.
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Athanasios Kollias
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 27 September 2021
Location: Greece
Posts: 340
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| Posted: 23 March 2025 at 10:20am | IP Logged | 12
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Ron - wasn't the retcon of the retcon that Mr. Sinister was indeed influencing Scott via Maddy the clone/Goblin Queen...good lord what am I typing ? :)++ Not Ron, but here's my take: It was indeed a retcon, but I think mainly in the use of Sinister or tehe endgame with Maddie/Goblin Queen. There were so many references that there is a link between Jean and Maddie, beyond the resemblence, that were never attributed to Mastermind. In fact, Mastemind said he thought it was quite a coincidence that she looked like Jean. If THIS isn't meant to be a subplot to be exploited, I don't know what is!!
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