| Author |  | 
      
        | John Byrne 
   Grumpy Old Guy
 
 Joined: 11 May 2005
 Posts: 135206
 | 
          Yes.
           | Posted: 07 December 2024 at 12:29pm | IP Logged | 1 | post reply |  
           | 
 |  | 
       
        | Back to Top | profile 
         | search | 
       
       
        |  | 
        | Mark Haslett Byrne Robotics Member
 
  
 Joined: 19 April 2004
 Location: United States
 Posts: 6940
 | 
          Yes.
           | Posted: 07 December 2024 at 5:55pm | IP Logged | 2 | post reply |  
           | 
 |  
 Again, the watering down and devolution of a strongly distinctive character
 and rule set results from an unguarded firehose of stories based on the
 unprotected original. What has been the positive effect of having “Dracula”
 become essentially synonymous with “vampire”?
 | 
       
        | Back to Top | profile 
         | search | 
       
       
        |  | 
        | Peter Martin Byrne Robotics Member
 
  
 Joined: 17 March 2008
 Location: Canada
 Posts: 16240
 | 
          Stoker's version has never really been seen on screen. Culturally we "know" what the archetypal version of Dracula is and it is something of a synthesis of Stoker, Universal and Hammer. I think we see something similar with Robin Hood and King Arthur, though both are obviously in the public domain.
           | Posted: 07 December 2024 at 7:24pm | IP Logged | 3 | post reply |  
           | 
 |  
 Conversely, a lot of complaints are levelled here about the lack of consistency in Batman in recent decades, when that is a character who has not been in the public domain. | 
       
        | Back to Top | profile 
         | search | 
       
       
        |  | 
        | John Byrne 
   Grumpy Old Guy
 
 Joined: 11 May 2005
 Posts: 135206
 | 
          Fan-think has done more damage to Batman than anything else.
           | Posted: 07 December 2024 at 7:43pm | IP Logged | 4 | post reply |  
           | 
 |  | 
       
        | Back to Top | profile 
         | search | 
       
       
        |  | 
        | Mark Haslett Byrne Robotics Member
 
  
 Joined: 19 April 2004
 Location: United States
 Posts: 6940
 | 
          Correct, Peter. With ownership comes responsibility. Though DC owns
           | Posted: 07 December 2024 at 7:46pm | IP Logged | 5 | post reply |  
           | 
 |  Batman, they have ignored the duty to protect the integrity of the character.
 | 
       
        | Back to Top | profile 
         | search | 
       
       
        |  | 
        | John Byrne 
   Grumpy Old Guy
 
 Joined: 11 May 2005
 Posts: 135206
 | 
          They seem to rejoice in destroying that integrity!!
           | Posted: 07 December 2024 at 8:06pm | IP Logged | 6 | post reply |  
           | 
 |  | 
       
        | Back to Top | profile 
         | search | 
       
       
        |  | 
        | Steven Myers Byrne Robotics Member
 
  
 Joined: 10 June 2004
 Location: United States
 Posts: 5726
 | 
          
           | Posted: 07 December 2024 at 9:01pm | IP Logged | 7 | post reply |  
           | 
 |  I was thinking about Wizard of Oz recently. It didn't take long for there to be non-LFB written Oz stories, but the stories written by Baum didn't have much internal consistency either. Most people think of the Garland movie as the "real" Oz.  Though it differs greatly from the original novel, it was loosely based on the stage play adaptations Baum had help write. But now there's Wicked, which I couldn't even get through. It seems so popular a world today, yet seems to have fallen so far...
 | 
       
        | Back to Top | profile 
         | search 
         | www | 
       
       
        |  | 
        | John Byrne 
   Grumpy Old Guy
 
 Joined: 11 May 2005
 Posts: 135206
 | 
          As I’ve often said, if you’re making a movie about, say, Abraham Lincoln, you’re free to ask “What was he really thinking?” He was a real man, and much of his inner self is cut off from us.
           | Posted: 07 December 2024 at 9:28pm | IP Logged | 8 | post reply |  
           | 
 |  But it’s pointless to ask that question about James Bond or Sherlock Holmes. Their creators told us what they were thinking. Why they did what they did. 
         | 
       
        | Back to Top | profile 
         | search | 
       
       
        |  | 
        | Scott Gray Byrne Robotics Member
 
  
 Joined: 16 August 2012
 Location: United Kingdom
 Posts: 67
 | 
          If you like Batman, the only place to find Batman stories has always been Warner Bros. That's going to change in 2035. Everyone will be able to produce and publish Batman stories.
           | Posted: 08 December 2024 at 11:45am | IP Logged | 9 | post reply |  
           | 
 |  
 But only the core Batman material will be available right at the start - Bruce Wayne, Gotham, Commissioner Gordon, etc. So creators will have to focus on the fundamentals of the character if they want their stories to feel "real". 
 It's going to take a while, but I think we may end up with a genuine meritocracy in comics publishing - yes, there will be cheap cash-ins, but there will also be stories produced with real love and care. Not just for Batman, of course, but for Superman, Wonder Woman, Captain America, Sub-Mariner, Captain Marvel, etc.  
 I think that, with the passing of time, people will ultimately stop thinking of Superman and Batman as "DC characters" entirely, in the same way we don't think of Sherlock Holmes as a "George Newnes Ltd" character or Dracula as an "Archibald Constable & Company" character.  
 
 | 
       
        | Back to Top | profile 
         | search | 
       
       
        |  | 
        | Mark Haslett Byrne Robotics Member
 
  
 Joined: 19 April 2004
 Location: United States
 Posts: 6940
 | 
          Interesting thought, Scott. But to me there is a fundamental ingredient that
           | Posted: 08 December 2024 at 6:07pm | IP Logged | 10 | post reply |  
           | 
 |  is already gone and only a “meritocracy” bent by my personal interests
 could even attempt to address it. And that is that IMHO, Batman functions
 best as a character in serial comic books written for all ages. Being able to
 read someone’s fan-made approximation of all that encompasses can never
 be the same. The only thing that could hope to do it would be an old pro,
 playing by the old rules-well, just like John Byrne did on Elsewhen.
 
 The problem with this meritocracy is that it will be drawn in so many
 directions by whatever nostalgia-driven audience remains that it is most
 likely that I will not find what I am looking for.
 | 
       
        | Back to Top | profile 
         | search | 
       
       
        |  | 
        | Peter Hicks Byrne Robotics Member
 
  
 Joined: 30 April 2004
 Location: Canada
 Posts: 2074
 | 
          I wonder if Marvel will be so bold as to publish their own version of Batman?
           | Posted: 08 December 2024 at 6:38pm | IP Logged | 11 | post reply |  
           | 
 |  | 
       
        | Back to Top | profile 
         | search | 
       
       
        |  | 
        | Scott Gray Byrne Robotics Member
 
  
 Joined: 16 August 2012
 Location: United Kingdom
 Posts: 67
 | 
          Peter Hicks: I wonder if Marvel will be so bold as to publish their own version of Batman?
           | Posted: 08 December 2024 at 7:07pm | IP Logged | 12 | post reply |  
           | 
 |  
 ******** 
 I've been wondering that myself. And of course, will DC decide to start publishing Captain America stories? 
 Ultimately, it won't matter. When a new Dracula or Sherlock Holmes novel comes out, nobody asks who's publishing it – people just want to know if it's any good. | 
       
        | Back to Top | profile 
         | search | 
       
       
        |  |