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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 05 May 2025 at 6:39pm | IP Logged | 1
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JB wrote: And in a town where everyone knew everyone why did so few people profess knowledge of Stratford Will as the Author, or even AN author?************** SG: Wouldn't he have been working in London? And nobody back home knew what he was doing in London?
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Scott Gray
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 August 2012
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| Posted: 05 May 2025 at 6:40pm | IP Logged | 2
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Mark Haslett wrote: No - I do not see how we can agree that is demonstrably true. The only basis for that claim is from a suspicious source reporting years after the acting would have taken place.
SG: I'm not claiming they were the same person; I'm just trying to establish that everyone agrees there was definitely a man in Stratford called Will Shaksper and definitely an actor in London called William Shakespeare.
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Scott Gray
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| Posted: 05 May 2025 at 6:45pm | IP Logged | 3
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JB wrote: And nobody back home knew what he was doing in London?
I used to work in Tunbridge Wells, a town of about 60,000. It's about 45 minutes' train ride to London. I knew people there who had *never* visited London. And that's in the 21st century!
I'm sure a few people in Stratford would have known what Will was up to in the Big Smoke, but it probably wouldn't have mattered to them.
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Mark Haslett
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Joined: 19 April 2004
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| Posted: 05 May 2025 at 6:46pm | IP Logged | 4
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SG: I'm not claiming they were the same person; I'm just trying to establish that everyone agrees there was definitely a man in Stratford called Will Shaksper and definitely an actor in London called William Shakespeare.
**
Okay. I'm not trying to obfuscate. Maybe I need to ask you what basis you want to use to make this claim? I do not see good evidence that an actor named William Shakespeare ever performed on the London stage.
I can lay my cards on table and say that I do believe Jonson's references are to the hidden poet, but I do not think Jonson is trying to say he performed under the stage name "William Shakespeare".
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Steven Brake
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Joined: 01 January 2016
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| Posted: 05 May 2025 at 6:53pm | IP Logged | 5
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@Scott Gray: As was customary for the time, Will of Stratford's surname was spelt a variety of ways. In the six signatures that are usually attributed to him, he signs his name as "Willm Shakp", "William Shaksper, "Wm Shakspe", "William Shakspere", "Willm Shakspere", and "William Shakspeare". As I've posted previously, in the royal charter of 1603 that created The King's Men, the name listed is "William Shakespeare".
Alternative Authorship theorists like to play the game that Will of Stratford was William Shaksper (or some other variant spelling - Shaxper, etc) and that this name got muddled up with William Shakespeare, the pseudonym used by the true author - Oxford being the preferred candidate.
This neatly overlooks not only that there is no evidence that Oxford used a pseudonym, but also that there was no requirement for him to have done so, given that we was known to be, and praised as, a playwright in his lifetime and suffered no ill-consequence as a result. |
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Scott Gray
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| Posted: 05 May 2025 at 7:03pm | IP Logged | 6
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Steven Brake wrote: Alternative Authorship theorists like to play the game that Will of Stratford was William Shaksper (or some other variant spelling - Shaxper, etc) and that this name got muddled up with William Shakespeare, the pseudonym used by the true author - Oxford being the preferred candidate.
This neatly overlooks not only that there is no evidence that Oxford used a pseudonym, but also that there was no requirement for him to have done so, given that we was known to be, and praised as, a playwright in his lifetime and suffered no ill-consequence as a result.
******************
SG: That's interesting - I was under the impression that Edward de Vere had been forced to hide his playwriting (which leads to a lot of thorny questions about how he could have possibly done so).
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Scott Gray
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| Posted: 05 May 2025 at 7:07pm | IP Logged | 7
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Mark Haslett wrote: I do not see good evidence that an actor named William Shakespeare ever performed on the London stage.
****************
SG: I thought that wasn't in doubt? Wasn't Shakespeare a member of The Lord Chamberlain's Men, a part-owner of the Globe, and credited as appearing in several London plays?
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Steven Brake
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| Posted: 05 May 2025 at 7:08pm | IP Logged | 8
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@Scott: Some Oxfordians argue that De Vere's social rank would have obliged him to have kept his authorship secret, which kinds of sits at odds with the fact that - as many of them are also prone to pointing out - he was known and praised for being a playwright.
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Michael Penn
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| Posted: 05 May 2025 at 7:16pm | IP Logged | 9
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QUOTE:
| So it's entirely possible that Will Shaksper could have known Richard Field and even attended school with him? |
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Sure, it's possible. There are no attendance records at all, so we have no idea which boys attended or not and when, etc.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 05 May 2025 at 7:24pm | IP Logged | 10
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Here we see the basic hypocrisy of the Stratford camp. If the evidence for Shaksper does not exist, they will cheerfully invent it. But evidence from another camp is dismissed unless it is cast in steel.
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Michael Penn
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| Posted: 05 May 2025 at 7:25pm | IP Logged | 11
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QUOTE:
| Did Field contribute to the transformation of Shaksper into Shakespeare? |
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Assuming the transformation happened, his doing so would not be inconsistent with what we know.
QUOTE:
| And in a town where everyone knew everyone why did so few people profess knowledge of Stratford Will as the Author, or even AN author? |
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I'm not aware of any record showing that anybody from Stratford named Will Shaksper as even an author.
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Scott Gray
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| Posted: 05 May 2025 at 7:28pm | IP Logged | 12
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Steven Brake wrote: Some Oxfordians argue that De Vere's social rank would have obliged him to have kept his authorship secret, which kinds of sits at odds with the fact that - as many of them are also prone to pointing out - he was known and praised for being a playwright.
*****************
SG: This is what I don't understand: De Vere was very well known in theatrical circles as well, right? If he had been secretly writing all of the plays, how would he have been able to keep it quiet? Did he never show his face at any rehearsals, never discuss them with the actors, never do any directing himself? He just handed his manuscripts over to someone at the Globe and ran off into the night? Does that seem feasible?
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