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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 01 September 2026 at 12:09pm | IP Logged | 1
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Claiming creation is almost always wading into muddy waters. Given the massive amount I contributed to the character, could I claim some part in the “creation” of Wolverine?
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Brian Miller
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 28 July 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 32222
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| Posted: 01 September 2026 at 3:59pm | IP Logged | 2
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More than Roy Thomas can.
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Eric Jansen
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 27 October 2013
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Posts: 2582
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| Posted: 02 September 2026 at 6:50am | IP Logged | 3
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Okay, let's look at that for a second. Does an editor ever deserve a co-plotter credit? (And if he does, does that extend to "co-creator" sometimes?) Is the editor's job to hire the right people and let them run with it or is the editor always expected to work out the plot with the listed writer? I've seen plenty of times when the editor is specifically listed as "co-plotter"--do those instances indicate when the editor did MORE than he would normally be expected to do?
Does it matter if it's a small office in the 1970's (or 40's) where people sometimes would wear multiple hats? Is it different when Stan or Roy was juggling multiple duties (including plotting and/or scripting) making sure 20 books came out that month? Vs. modern days when a "group editor" is in charge of 4-6 books and has an assistant editor handling the office stuff?
Would an editor only deserve co-creator credit if he is listed in the credits as co-plotter? What if he totally directed the writer in the plot that introduced a hit character but he chose to simplify the credits?
Edited by Eric Jansen on 02 September 2026 at 8:21am
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Brian Miller
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 28 July 2004
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| Posted: 02 September 2026 at 11:52am | IP Logged | 4
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The credits have nothing to do with it. John Romita is widely known to have
designed Wolverine’s original costume. He wasn’t in the credits but is a co-
creator.
An editor hiring someone to produce an issue of a comic book is not
creating. That’s like saying if my company hired a musician to create a jingle
for me then I am co-writer of that jingle. Editing a comic and offering
guidance throughout the process is not the same thing as creating the story
or characters. Not that it can’t happen, but they’re not the same thing.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 136992
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| Posted: 02 September 2026 at 12:48pm | IP Logged | 5
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Is the editor's job to hire the right people and let them run with it or is the editor always expected to work out the plot with the listed writer?••• It’s different in each case. My best experiences have been with those editors who hired me for what they knew I would deliver. My worse was with those who treated what I gave them as raw material—especially those who did not consult with me before making changes. (This was especially bad at DC, where there was an underlying philosophy that the editors were the real creative forces. It was this that prompted me to comment on more than one occasion that nobody had ever seen a new title on the rack and said “Hey! That looks well edited!”)
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Michael Penn
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Joined: 12 April 2006
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| Posted: 02 September 2026 at 1:33pm | IP Logged | 6
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> My best experiences have been with those editors who hired me for what they knew I would deliver. <
How long did it take for you at Marvel to be trusted by an editor that way? Who were the first editors to treat you thus?
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 136992
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| Posted: 02 September 2026 at 2:22pm | IP Logged | 7
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I’d prefer not to name names. Don’t want to leave anyone out and accidentally imply they belong to the other camp. That MARVEL TWO-IN-ONE (50?) Thing vs Thing was the first time at Marvel that I was given a completely free hand.
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Michael Penn
Byrne Robotics Member
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| Posted: 02 September 2026 at 2:33pm | IP Logged | 8
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Ah, that's good one!
(The final close up of Ben Grimm's human face, if you told us that Kirby himself drew it, I'd believe you!)
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Peter Hicks
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 30 April 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 2171
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| Posted: 02 September 2026 at 3:28pm | IP Logged | 9
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JB is right that I never read a comic and thought it was well edited. However, I have thought some comics were poorly edited when I found the writing to be incomprehensible. Most of Grant Morrison's recent stories fall into this category.
For an editor to claim co-creator rights, isn't that just bragging rights rather than trying to get a cheque? Editors are paid salary, so anything they create is owned by the company.
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Scott Gray
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 August 2012
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 92
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| Posted: 02 September 2026 at 7:57pm | IP Logged | 10
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JB wrote:
Claiming creation is almost always wading into muddy waters.Given the massive amount I contributed to the character, could I claim some part in the “creation” of Wolverine? ***** Not the creation, but something that's ultimately just as important: re-shaping a character into something far more appealing. Pre-Byrne, Wolverine was a loud-mouthed jerk who always seemed to go down first in a fight. You turned him into a cool tough guy who readers wanted to emulate. Now that I think about it, it's quite similar to what Frank Miller did with the Kingpin: take a joke character and turn him into something genuinely formidable and intriguing.
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Vinny Valenti
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 8675
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| Posted: 02 September 2026 at 8:55pm | IP Logged | 11
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That happens quite often. Liefeld may have "created" Deadpool, but it was a Fabian Nicieza script that gave him the smart mouth, and it wasn't until Joe Kelly came along and molded his personality , added the comedy and also the 4th wall elements* several years later where he really took off.
Jim Lee created Maverick (first appeared with a JB script, no less), but yet the character went nowhere, even after attempted one-shots and limited series. Giving credit solely to creators does not always tell the whole story, literally.
*I never read whether Kelly was influenced by JB's SHE-HULK run, but I say that he had to be, especially since he had the Great Lakes Avengers appear in DEADPOOL.
Edited by Vinny Valenti on 02 September 2026 at 8:58pm
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