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Dave Kopperman Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 27 December 2004 Location: United States Posts: 4201
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| Posted: 05 October 2026 at 3:26pm | IP Logged | 1
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I came on at just the right time as a reader to not really 'miss' Superboy. By the early 80's, Kara had become the 30th Century visitor, though even there she was only an infrequent presence - meaning that her death in Crisis as told in the Legion of Super Heroes wasn't about HER as much as it was about Brainiac 5. As an aside, I don't know that Kara herself ever got the elegy she really deserved in the comics or (more importantly and tellingly) fandom at the time.
For an event that was intended to clear up a confusing* continuity, it sure feels like DC Editorial went out of their way to re-confuse it from the get-go. About the best take on its legacy was in (of all places) Grant Morrison's Animal Man, which picked up the thread of the Psycho-Pirate's lone recall of prior continuity and how it dovetailed with Buddy's old existence, all pretty elegantly. Though Morrison later became the second-greatest perpetrator of exhausting continuity-porn with X-number of follow-up Crises, a good example of an author not knowing when to move the hell on.
*Confusing is, of course, an entirely subjective condition and is really on the reader to sort out their response.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 137218
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| Posted: 05 October 2026 at 4:04pm | IP Logged | 2
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A repeated justification for CRISIS was that DC continuity had become “too confusing. Dick Giordano had even approached me about producing “history” of the DC Universe which would pound everything into a comprehensible form, then in the 12th issue blow it all up so they could start over the next month with all new first issues. Frank Miller was at that small dinner, and he strongly advised me against accepting the assignment. I said there was no danger I would. I thought it was kind of a silly idea, plus I didn’t know nearly enough DC history to pull it off. Also, I felt things were confusing only because anal-retentive writers and editors kept crawling deeper and deeper into that rabbit hole. “Just STOP DOING THAT,” I said. They didn’t do that. The “history” went on to become CRISIS.
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Josh Goldberg Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 25 October 2005 Location: United States Posts: 2164
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| Posted: 05 October 2026 at 7:04pm | IP Logged | 3
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I was in high school when CRISIS was published. Even when my age was still measured in single digits, I never had a problem following DC continuity. In fact, I only found it to start getting confusing post-CRISIS.
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James Woodcock Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 21 September 2007 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 8705
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| Posted: 05 October 2026 at 7:57pm | IP Logged | 4
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Continuity is a two edged sword.It helps build worlds, but it also ties people in knots. Keep what you want, ignore what you want. The issue becomes when anals start to focus on minutiae at the expense of the larger picture. Do I care whether a story from the 50 is in continuity or not? Not really. Do I care whether a story invalidates another story? Not anymore. Star Wars blew up an entire decades old continuity. I still read those books and comics. Do I enjoy them any less? Nope.
Edited by James Woodcock on 05 October 2026 at 7:59pm
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Tom French Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 07 January 2005 Location: United States Posts: 4176
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| Posted: 05 October 2026 at 8:41pm | IP Logged | 5
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The Legion was involved in the CRISIS. There was a whole issue dedicated to Brainiac 5's depression knowing Supergirl was about to die (because, you know, history).
It wouldn't have been that hard, when the CRISIS ended, for the Legion to look back through time, discover this "new" history, and realize there'd never been a Superboy in it -- that could've launched a bunch of stories for them.
Opportunity missed.
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Mark Haslett Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 19 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 6964
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| Posted: 05 October 2026 at 11:44pm | IP Logged | 6
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It's interesting to re-think comics history and ask what are the smallest changes that would have allowed comic books to stay all-ages and available on spinner-racks and magazine stands to the end.
Of course the biggest change was literally taking them off spinner racks and magazine stands-- but I would love to see what would have happened if someone at the top had been able to forbid addressing "CONTINUITY ISSUES".
I suspect comic book collecting would have been a lot different-- and less susceptible to manipulation.
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Eric Jansen Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 27 October 2013 Location: United States Posts: 2587
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| Posted: 06 October 2026 at 12:53am | IP Logged | 7
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If I recall correctly, at the time of CRISIS, the two highest-selling DC books were LEGION OF SUPER-HEROES and NEW TEEN TITANS. I find it ironic that CRISIS--which was produced by the TITANS creative team--totally ruined both LEGION and TITANS! After all, how do you reference LEGION lore (which was a big part of the book's appeal) without Superboy who was a big part of all their greatest stories? And how do you have a Wonder Girl without a Wonder Woman?!? (Was Donna even OLDER than Diana when WW got rebooted?!)
Rebooting WW also ruined JUSTICE LEAGUE OF AMERICA's continuity, which contained a lot of important stories.
Removing Superboy and Wonder Woman from stories that were STILL SAID TO HAVE HAPPENED reminds me of how the Soviets would totally scrub certain people who had fallen out of favor from books, statues, and even photos. Just because you SAY something didn't happen doesn't mean that it didn't happen!
The fixes are simple. Any one of these would have worked better than the fractured continuity that DC is STILL trying to fix (by fiat) 40 years later:
1. If it was mandatory Clark became Superman only in adulthood in Metropolis, Superboy still could have been part of the Legion (or its history at least) by simply establishing he only wore his costume in the future. (His non-Legion adventures were never referenced anyhow, except for blowing off young Lex Luthor's hair!) After all, Clark was still around and STILL had his powers and must have been doing SOMETHING during his teen years! It's hard to believe that he would have done NOTHING with them before he was an adult. (The MAN OF STEEL movie's most ridiculed moments notwithstanding.) Moving that "itch" to the future Earth actually makes sense!
2. George Perez's reboot of WONDER WOMAN could have easily been set in the past without hurting anything, as it was mostly self-contained. The Earth-One/post-Golden Age Wonder Woman's history had never really been fleshed out anyhow.
3. Or just start a new Earth 3! A clean start for everybody. Earth-2 was increasingly far removed from all the WWII era origins for everybody and all the favorite characters were doomed to die of old age and be supplanted by legacy replacements anyhow (which is what happened!). The piecemeal explanations for Black Canary being young, Hawkman's still super-convoluted origins, and the other "fixes" still grate decades later.
As a young adult who still enjoyed the stories I grew up on, I was initially very excited by CRISIS and to see the end of some stories and the potential of new stories going forward. After two years of uneven and unsatisfying patches and a continuity certainly more confusing than the simple disclaimer "This story takes place on a parallel Earth where some of your favorite heroes are older," I ended up quitting DC for over a decade, even though I still loved the characters and will forever love the comic book medium. At least with Marvel, I could return whenever I wanted and revisit my other favorite characters and not worry about wading through decades of piled up story band-aids.
Edited by Eric Jansen on 06 October 2026 at 11:11am
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Brandon Carter Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 2420
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| Posted: 06 October 2026 at 2:07pm | IP Logged | 8
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I disagree that DC continuity had become "too confusing" at that point but I find that kind of refreshing in a way. It's been many years since either DC or Marvel resisted publishing something on grounds that it was "too confusing". It seems like confusing might be a requirement!
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 137218
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| Posted: 06 October 2026 at 2:27pm | IP Logged | 9
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“Every issue is the first issue for some one.”Is our target audience the comic shop guy from THE SIMPSONS, or should we be ever aware of people making spontaneous purchases? Note: stupid question. The DSM has virtually eliminated spontaneous purchases.
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Evan S. Kurtz Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 04 July 2022 Location: Canada Posts: 463
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| Posted: 06 October 2026 at 10:31pm | IP Logged | 10
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It's absolutely true. When I moved to Canada 22 years ago I had to stop collecting comics due to unemployment/living in poverty, and by the time I started my career and had disposable income, I was so disconnected from comics that trying to make sense of "continuity" was intimidating and felt impossible. And things haven't gotten any better in the 16 years since. These days if I read comics, I'm just reading for storylines or because I enjoy the works of the writer and/or artist, but it's so daunting I wouldn't even try to get my 12-year-old son into comics the way I was at his age.
I think about this a lot. I feel like comic books should be created with a similar outlook to the average James Bond movie. You know stuff happened in the past, and stuff will continue to happen in the future, but the only thing that should matter to a current story is whatever's actually relevant to the current story. And once that story is done, whatever comes next shouldn't have to depend on anything that just happened. Am I crazy for thinking this?
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Mark McKay Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 2310
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| Posted: 07 October 2026 at 12:30am | IP Logged | 11
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One of my very first comics was Infinity, Inc. #1. The kid I bought it from in art class said “it’s an alternate timeline where the 1940s versions of the characters have kids who become superheroes.”
“Cool!”
Pretty easy to grasp!
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Vinny Valenti Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 17 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 8714
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| Posted: 07 October 2026 at 12:53am | IP Logged | 12
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"Removing Superboy and Wonder Woman from stories that were STILL SAID TO HAVE HAPPENED reminds me of how the Soviets would totally scrub certain people who had fallen out of favor from books, statues, and even photos. Just because you SAY something didn't happen doesn't mean that it didn't happen!"
---
This was something that confused me as a kid that kept me away from DC for years. They substituted Wonder Woman with Black Canary as a founding member of the JLA - but since they still referenced previous stories, were we supposed to mentally make the substitution as well? They has different powers, so the outcomes of battles had to be different.
Similarly the New Teen Titans that you referenced - Superman appeared in a pre-Crisis issue, so were we supposed to slip in JB's Superman when re-reading it, instead?
Yes, this is all a heaping amount of overthinking. But at least with Marvel, outside of topical refrerences, most of the older stories didn't need as much substitution. But of course, Marvel had to blow all that up with the way they undid Spider-Man's marriage.
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