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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 135935
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| Posted: 03 April 2012 at 10:42am | IP Logged | 1
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Incidentally, there was, apparently, quite a furor among DARE fans when Bellamy took over the art. They found his rougher, more organic style too hard to take. Being a youngster (8 or 9) at the time, I didn't pay much attention to such things, but I can certainly see now why some folk might have been upset. Compare Dan's face in the second panel of the first page, above, to how he looks in the fourth panel of the other page.Dare's face was designed by Frank Hampson, who had his own "generic" heroic face and used it often. A variant even turned up as Jesus, in the life story Hampson drew as "The Road of Courage" on the back page of EAGLE. Bellamy's "generic" face was very different. Worked well when he later used it on HEROS THE SPARTAN but, if I am honest, perhaps not so well in some shots in DAN DARE.
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Joe Hollon
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 08 May 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 13739
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| Posted: 03 April 2012 at 12:17pm | IP Logged | 2
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And does this also mean there may be people out there who have purchased Jack Kirby SUPER POWERS pages, inked, which actually have NO Kirby work on them?
*******
Yes. You see these inked pages come up now and then on eBay and dealer's sites. They go for a couple hundred maybe but occasionally you see someone asking more like a couple thousand...showing that they either overpaid and think they have real Kirby art or they're trying to sucker someone else...
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Paul Greer
Byrne Robotics Security
Joined: 18 August 2004
Posts: 14203
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| Posted: 03 April 2012 at 12:23pm | IP Logged | 3
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This was about 7 years ago but I bought one of those pages thinking it was a Kirby original. The art dealer sold it as a Kirby original. When I posted it on the forum JB was the one who informed me that it was, in fact, not an original since he owned the pencil pages. After a lot of arguing with the seller I had to use my credit card company to get my money back. What a pain that was.
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Flavio Sapha
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: Brazil
Posts: 12912
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| Posted: 03 April 2012 at 12:30pm | IP Logged | 4
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Bob Wiacek, unsung hero? Those inks are killer!
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Chris Cottrill
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 September 2010
Location: United States
Posts: 375
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| Posted: 03 April 2012 at 1:47pm | IP Logged | 5
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The Kirby pencil pages are incredible! I just can't believe pencils survived of his work in this way. •• Jim and I were discussing this, and in all honesty, it seems maybe a bit dodgy. Since Kirby would have received his artwork back, but these pencils did not come from him, or his estate, does that mean he received 2/3rds (the penciler's share) of the TRACED pages? And does this also mean there may be people out there who have purchased Jack Kirby SUPER POWERS pages, inked, which actually have NO Kirby work on them?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Wait.What?!
How common a practice is this? Is it still done?
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Dave Aikins
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 31 July 2007
Location: United States
Posts: 2110
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| Posted: 03 April 2012 at 1:52pm | IP Logged | 6
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Chris- due to the changes in technology, having the inked page be separate from the penciled page has become VERY common.
Back in the 80's it was fairly rare, as most of the time the inked art would be on vellum, not comic art board. But, some inkers would, on the rare occasion, ink over a light-box and keep the pencils separate. Inking over a lightbox (to me at least) is a pain in the behind, so it didn't happen that often...
These days, a penciler can email the inks to an artist, and they can print them out on a board (often in light blue) and start inking. Saves alot of time and shipping money, but creates a lot of confusion in the original art market.
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Chris Cottrill
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 September 2010
Location: United States
Posts: 375
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| Posted: 03 April 2012 at 2:10pm | IP Logged | 7
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Thanks, Dave. I think I'm going to be a little more picky when it comes
Kirby for my first page of his. And I believe any more recent art I buy will
be chosen more carefully.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 135935
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| Posted: 03 April 2012 at 2:10pm | IP Logged | 8
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… but creates a lot of confusion in the original art market.•• Which is why, when I inked some Kirby xeroxes to create a Forever People pinup for the KIRBY COLLECTOR, I signed it "…traced by…".
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Dave Aikins
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 31 July 2007
Location: United States
Posts: 2110
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| Posted: 03 April 2012 at 2:32pm | IP Logged | 9
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Chris- one of the biggest beefs I have with art collectors- especially comic art- is their unwillingness to research the art, the artist, and the artist's techniques. With the higher prices on today's art market, as well as on commissions... wouldn't you want to make sure you knew what you were buying? Sometimes it's as easy as asking some other collectors or artists, other times it's a matter of researching an artist...
Mike Royer got in the middle of some trouble a couple of year s ago, when a dealer in Australia sold some Royer recreations as being original Kirby/Royer art. MIke would sign them "Jack Kirby & Mike Royer". Now, anyone with knowledge of comic art would more than likely know that they were recreations. A little research would tell you they were recreations (Mike started doing them around 2000), and that original vintage Kirby & Royer pin-ups/commissions don't really exist (and if they do, are pretty dang rare). But, someone started to claim they were original Kirby drawings, and someone believed the claim. Now, Mike signs the "From Kirby by Royer"...
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William Roberge
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 05 July 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 11372
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| Posted: 03 April 2012 at 2:57pm | IP Logged | 10
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This cover was sold back in 2009 with this information.... " Description: Jack Kirby and Greg TheakstonSuper Powers#6 Superman and Darkseid Cover Original Art (DC, 1986).Darkseid battles the Super Powers and the prize is Earth. The issue was dedicated to Julius Schwartz, Gardner Fox, Mike Sekowsky, and Bernie Sachs, and was based on the 1985 TV cartoon "Super Powers: Darkseid of the Moon." This page has an overall size of 12" x 17.75". The art extends to the edges of the page (no borders) and it's in Excellent condition. Kirby, Jack: Jack Kirby (American, 1917-1994) : Jack Kirby has received world-wide recognition for his long comic book career and accomplishments. He is regarded by historians and fans as one of the major innovators and most influential creators in the comic-book medium, thus earning the nick-name "King." Among Kirby's many co-creations are Captain America, the Newsboy Legion, the Challengers of the Unknown, the Fantastic Four, the Hulk, Thor, the Avengers, the X-Men, Silver Surfer, the New Gods, and countless other memorable heroes and villains." 
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 135935
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| Posted: 03 April 2012 at 3:01pm | IP Logged | 11
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Wow. Absolute nothing there says "Not Kirby's original", does it?
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Chris Cottrill
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 September 2010
Location: United States
Posts: 375
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| Posted: 03 April 2012 at 3:05pm | IP Logged | 12
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I google people all the time.Usually I find out neat info and I either find
something I like or another artist.Sometimes I find both.
It's a really fun hobby but you have to pay close attention.There's a JB
WW page on ebay I'm watching right now.I wonder how many of the
bidders notice that shipping cost $50.00 ;)
To stay on topic.......
Page 6;front "Korak: Son of Tarzan" 11x17 Will Meugniot
Edited by Chris Cottrill on 03 April 2012 at 4:15pm
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