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Glenn Greenberg
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Posted: 22 February 2008 at 9:58am | IP Logged | 1  

please delete

Edited by Glenn Greenberg on 22 February 2008 at 10:06am
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Glenn Greenberg
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Posted: 22 February 2008 at 10:06am | IP Logged | 2  

<<<The ONLY artist I ever threatened (no...PROMISED) with physical harm.
THough I did it ina very nice,friendly and professional way.>>>


Howard,

Did you mean to write "editor" instead of "artist"?







Edited by Glenn Greenberg on 22 February 2008 at 10:07am
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John Byrne
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Posted: 22 February 2008 at 10:07am | IP Logged | 3  

I'm sure that's what he meant, Glenn. Howard and I have had this discussion
before!
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Eric Lund
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Posted: 22 February 2008 at 10:27am | IP Logged | 4  

This argument is stupid. Whether JB produces 1,000,000,000 comics on time or not. If someone would rather buy 1 Neal Adams comic and no one wants to buy 1,000,000,000 JB comics then the 1,000,000,000 are worth nothing in the market place.

Welcome to capitalism and the free market. There is a thing called "Perceived Value" and a comicbooks "Perceived Value" in the marketplace at this time has zero to do with whether it came out on time.

That is the marketplace... love it, hate it...that is the reality. If the product in question has no perceived value in the marketplace it will never sell...Ever! ... Ask Vanilla Ice how well his career is going these days....and his new albums are selling. OR thousands of other artists who were the shit and now are not.

Publishing 12 comics a month that don't sell is not profitable at all to the company over publishing one book that sells truckloaads... It is economics.. Blood of the Demon and Doom Patrol tanked because they sold in the gutter.... Ultimates sold through the roof! You can hate that all you want but that is reality.

A product is not going to sell simply because it gets made....and the idea that you HAVE to buy a periodical because it comes out on time is retarded. You buy based on the perceived value of the content. Mine, yours and everyone elses is going to be different but that is why people buy what they buy... That is why Neal Adams became a giant in the industry instead of Sal Buscema. Neal produced a fraction of what Sal did in his career but the perceived value of Neals work is greater. Whether that is fair or not does not matter that is the wall the ball bounces....

Art and its value varies
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Howard Mackie
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Posted: 22 February 2008 at 10:39am | IP Logged | 5  

Thanks, Glenn, my bad. NEVER threatened an artist... thought here were a few...

H

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John Byrne
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Posted: 22 February 2008 at 11:03am | IP Logged | 6  

Publishing 12 comics a month that don't sell is not profitable at all to the company over publishing one book that sells truckloaads...

12 issues that sell, say, 12,000 vs 1 issue that sells 100,000. Hm.

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Glenn Greenberg
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Posted: 22 February 2008 at 12:05pm | IP Logged | 7  

<<<Thanks, Glenn, my bad. NEVER threatened an artist... thought here
were a few...>>>


No prob, Howard.

I have to say, all this does is make me wonder all over again why Marvel's
EIC at that time would keep folks like that on staff while letting far more
hard-working--and, more importantly, COMPETENT--editors get the
axe during that last round of layoffs.

It's why I still have a major beef against that EIC to this day.


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Knut Robert Knutsen
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Posted: 22 February 2008 at 12:13pm | IP Logged | 8  

"That is why Neal Adams became a giant in the industry instead of Sal Buscema. Neal produced a fraction of what Sal did in his career but the perceived value of Neals work is greater."

Speak for your own goddamn self.

Yeah, a lot of fans love Neal Adams work. Shame there's so little of it to go around. When Neal couldn't deliver, if there hadn't been other great artists capable of producing work quicker in order to fill in the issues he had to skip, there would be no famous Ra's al Ghul saga (Thank you Irv Novick!), no Kree-Skrull War (Thank you John Buscema!) because the books would have been cancelled. Back, then you didn't skip publishing for several months if you wanted titles to survive.

Yeah, Neal Adams' work was great. Fans loved it, pros loved it, but the books had to come out on time and someone had to pick up the slack. He's not the only artist who was slow, but whose art was loved by Fans, pros and editors. If you're slow that's how you survive.

Fans might have griped and cursed every time there was a fill in for Neal Adams, but it would have been even worse if they had missed out on their monthly fix. The diminishing fan-base would have started shrinking a lot worse several decades earlier.

And maybe Neal Adams is a giant in the industry, but he's dwarfed by people like Joe Kubert, Jack Kirby etc who produced great work, lots of it and on time.

(And I like Sal Buscema's comic book work a hell of a lot more than that of Neal Adams. Not saying he's technically a better artist, but his comics read better to me.)

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Kevin Brown
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Posted: 22 February 2008 at 12:50pm | IP Logged | 9  

Doesn't alter the fact that Frank used to be a maniac about getting the stuff in and out on time -- nor does it make the points he raised on this subject any less valid.

**************

True.  Those points are definitely valid.

I just wish he was still a maniac about his stuff getting out on time.

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George Massou
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Posted: 22 February 2008 at 1:46pm | IP Logged | 10  

I agree with what Eric said - readers& retailers vote with their wallets and they do not care if books are late. Most high profile late books still sell very well. So if publishers have no financial incentive to get books out on time they wont do it.

Especially if you factor in perenial trade sales - i recently discovered Alan Moore's Top Ten series via trades - i think the singles shipped late (not sure) but as a trade reader i am happy that it has consistent artwork by Gene Ha throughout..no crappy fill ins.

 

 

 

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George Massou
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Posted: 22 February 2008 at 2:10pm | IP Logged | 11  

Lets also not forget that 12 unprofitable issues are seen as much worse than a handfull of very profitable issues by a high profile creative team.

 

In JB's example above he forgot to mention that the cost of producing a comic that only sells 12,000 copies a month will ensure its cancellation. The 100K selling comic produces a much higher profit margin for the publisher. AND will also ensure long term trade sales.

(DC recently dropped the ball by having 5 different artists draw the 5 part Titans tomorrow story..it was horrible..a real mish mash of styles and zero consistency..the trade will never sell..a shame because the story was decent).

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Paulo Pereira
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Posted: 22 February 2008 at 2:15pm | IP Logged | 12  


 QUOTE:
(DC recently dropped the ball by having 5 different artists draw the 5 part Titans tomorrow story..it was horrible..a real mish mash of styles and zero consistency..the trade will never sell..a shame because the story was decent).

I thought that was one of the reasons that I found "THE OTHER" unlikeable (apart from the atrocious premise).  I imagine that sold pretty well, though.

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