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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132835
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| Posted: 10 January 2009 at 8:07am | IP Logged | 1
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Ouch. Some of the worst inks I've had in my career!
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Andy Mokler
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 January 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 2799
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| Posted: 10 January 2009 at 8:10am | IP Logged | 2
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Was Bob Layton pretty young(inexperienced?) in '78? I always think of him as a strong artist but I don't really know if he did much inking. The inks didn't jump out at me when I was reading it though so my eye isn't seeing what you are seeing JB.
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Clint Ludwick
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 April 2007
Location: United States
Posts: 1952
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| Posted: 10 January 2009 at 8:31am | IP Logged | 3
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I know JB is not a fan of the inks in this book, but it is actually one of my favorites. I can still see JB underneath and I love the Hulk X=Men team-up!
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Wayde Murray
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 14 October 2005
Location: Canada
Posts: 3115
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| Posted: 10 January 2009 at 8:44am | IP Logged | 4
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Even back then it was the little things that JB threw in that I liked. Page 8 panel 5, where Angel spreads his wings for Terri to touch, and page 2 last panel, where Candy is touching his wing as she hugs him. This played up nicely to the concept here that women find Warren irresistable without having to rely on dialog like "Ooh, he's so irresistible!"
Like I said, it's the little things that add depth to the story.
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Michael Arndt
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 April 2004
Posts: 8560
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| Posted: 10 January 2009 at 8:45am | IP Logged | 5
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Took me a long time to find this comic book. Really enjoyed the story.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132835
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| Posted: 10 January 2009 at 8:45am | IP Logged | 6
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At this point in his career, there were two things (primarily) wrong with
Layton as an inker.
First, he had only one texture, which was glass/metal. Everything he inked
looked like it had been polished to a high gloss -- glass and metal (where it
sometimes worked) but also cloth, skin, rock, tree, grass. . . For a tiny
example, look at the hat trapped in the ice on page 10. The band looks like
it's plastic or metal. Since a variety is textures is one of the things I have
worked hard to incorporate into my work (and something for which I have
been often complimented) this did not thrill me.
Second, he had almost no training as an artist. He had learned a narrow
range of inking techniques, but almost nothing of the drawing that should
go under them. Unfortunately, this did not stop him "fixing" the pencils of
artists who did know what they were doing (like JRjr). In this issue, for
instance, Layton was going thru a period where he had decided he was one
of the artists who could draw upper lips on men. (It's a lot harder than it
sounds. The number of artists who can do it would it looking like lipstick
would not crowd a small elevator.) Unfortunately, Layton was not one
of these artists, with the result that the men he inked very often did look
like they were wearing lipstick -- and he drew in an upper lip in
virtually every shot, without regard for the position of the head. (Look at
Warren on the splash. From that angle, his upper lip would not be visible,
but there it is.) Layton also knew absolutely nothing about drawing
circles/ellipses in perspective (one of my fortes, if I may be so bold), but
that did not stop him "fixing" what I drew. It was with this in mind, in fact,
that some time back I offered one of my little art lessons, here in the Forum:
I can look at this issue now and see everything that was wrong with the
pencils, typical of my work at the time -- but at the time I was quite
pleased with this job, and not at all pleased to see pretty much everything I
liked about it obliterated by the inks.
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Trevor Giberson
Byrne Robotics Chronology
Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 1888
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| Posted: 10 January 2009 at 8:53am | IP Logged | 7
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I recently purchased this issue for the first time. I never had it when I was a kid. I think that what a great artist looks for in a comic is quite different than what a reader looks for. Despite JB's misgivings, this was a very exciting, entertaining comic. Interesting characters, dramatic artwork, lots of action, and an interesting story. The sure don't make 'em like this anymore.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132835
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| Posted: 10 January 2009 at 9:12am | IP Logged | 8
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This, by the way, was the issue that got me in trouble the first time as
a Gay-Basher, when I mentioned in an interview that my father, looking at
the finished job, had come to the shot of Angel in the last panel on page 7
and said "He looks Gay."
What followed, in the fan press, was a firestorm of commentary about
whether or not Angel was Gay, and if he was why not, and hey! he
should be Gay, and what has Byrne got against Gays anyway???
And that was before the internet!!
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Gerry Turnbull
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: Scotland
Posts: 8766
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| Posted: 10 January 2009 at 9:34am | IP Logged | 9
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a very good issue, i have very fond memories of this one.
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Brian Miller
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 28 July 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 31022
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| Posted: 10 January 2009 at 9:43am | IP Logged | 10
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One of my all-time favorite Hulk stories. And one of my favorite JB issues.
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Philippe Negrin
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 August 2007
Location: France
Posts: 2644
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| Posted: 10 January 2009 at 10:48am | IP Logged | 11
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It's funny (or sad for my technical eye) how I didn't see anything wrong with the inking at first but now JB has pointed out 2 problems (men's mouthes and metal textures) I can't but see them !
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Philippe Negrin
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 August 2007
Location: France
Posts: 2644
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| Posted: 10 January 2009 at 10:49am | IP Logged | 12
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No wonder Bob worked on Iron Man : Metal everywhere and no mouth !
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