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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 136290
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| Posted: 31 March 2022 at 8:04am | IP Logged | 1
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THIS overview/review is eight years old, but to the best of my memory this is the first time I’ve seen it. And, once again, most of the credit for this somewhat significant tale is given to Chris—despite the fact that the writer notes that in concocting this story I was unconsciously influenced by “Day of the Daleks” from DOCTOR WHO.* A story of which Chris had no knowledge when we embarked on this saga. That embarkation point tends to be forgotten, almost half a century later. The fact that it all started with Chris not wanting to do a Sentinels story (”Sentinels are lame!”) and me coming up with a story in which they were anything but. Chris came up with the Washington subplot, the attempted assassination of Senator Kelly, but the rest is mine. Doesn’t seem like an unreasonable request on my part that that be acknowledged! _______ * Just a few bones in the spine, really. Since I mentioned this inspiration, some have tried to turn it into a Bad Byrne story, with me ripping off the whole thing. (Not the first time. One dimwitted “reviewer” described my plot for “Terror in a Tiny Town” as an “uncredited adaptation” of a short story I had not even read!!
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David Schmidt
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 11 July 2017
Location: France
Posts: 441
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| Posted: 31 March 2022 at 9:57am | IP Logged | 2
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To be fair when I was a kid I thought Chris Claremont was the one writing everything, you were the guy drawing and Terry Austin was the guy inking.
Little did I know of how comic books were made.
I was a little bit surprised when Alpha Flight was published in France (at the same time you left the series) andI when I learn you created the characters.
I know better now.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 136290
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| Posted: 31 March 2022 at 10:03am | IP Logged | 3
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You may recall it took a while for me to persuade Chris to stop crediting himself as “Author” and me as “Artist”. At the time I pointed out that Terry was also an artist, and Chris and I were, together, the authors. Proper credit where due (for everyone) has been a long fought battle in my career.
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Vinny Valenti
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 8587
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| Posted: 31 March 2022 at 10:29am | IP Logged | 4
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You are still one of the only few that places the artist credit before your own when someone else draws one of your stories. Maybe the first ever?
Also Keith Williams noted that you were the first to give credit for background inks.
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Rebecca Jansen
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 February 2018
Location: Canada
Posts: 4559
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| Posted: 31 March 2022 at 12:19pm | IP Logged | 5
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It was an exciting tale at the time, maybe the biggest lasting impression and revelation was seeing Wolv's skeleton (those Sentinels did in a moment what many others could not)! I've seen in an early '90s Guardians Of The Galaxy comic that 'their' future Doctor Doom made use of that skeleton (against some kind of descendant of Logan's named Rancor), so despite the later bones business some others did respect that scene.
The sad thing was how Claremont and others kept returning to this two-parter, about as often as the Dark Phoenix story, loading on evermore additions and expansions until they risked (or achieved) diminishing the originals. The number of alternate future offspring traveling back to our present became truly laughable. I can't say I wish the story hadn't happened because of it's bad influence, but it's a legacy of it however unwanted... could easily have lived without Cable, X-Man, Bishop or Marvel Girl (Sue Storm and Doctor Doom's daughter), Mark II or II or whatever she was, ever having existing.
The Senator Kelly assassination aspect was good and dove-tailed in nicely... until of course they kept referring back to and monkeying with that too so as to milk that. Then those same baddies end up as a government task force via X-Factor (the all the bad guys have to become noble phase?).
So really, it's other writers I see as rehashing and drawing off older work when they should've been creating something as original and imaginative as those '78-'80 X-Men comics were! Maybe Roy Thomas started that (plus the need for footnotes pointing back to comics as long ago as from the '40s), but I didn't find his stories as breaking things nor loading more stuff needlessly, nor as dependent on readers having read the earlier tale. Likewise I think there haven't been John Byrne comics a new reader could only find confusing, there's always been a pay off! Coming into part seven of eighteen of some long Mutant 'war' saga later on, even having read the 'key' run of '78-'80, I just haven't gotten much enjoyment of a story in it's own right, nor found the characters or info about them evolving organically (out of the events told) but kind of perfunctorily dropped in almost randomly. If any of this makes sense, I might not be communicating so well myself.
So what to do with stories like Days Of Future Past, Dark Phoenix, or The Kree-Skrull War almost universally enjoyed and remembered by fans? I mean other than the obligatorily What If (or three). Well... how about writers trying to create something as new and interesting as those were? A couple of generations of too many re-runs with a few new details solely to make the new writer feel they have added something (kind of like all the 'homage' covers or those reprints of X-Men with new bits stuck on) I don't think has been good for comics as a mass medium with a wide audience. Or maybe it's a matter of opinion and most people did really enjoy a focus on embellishment of earlier stories and the 'new' alternate futures and characters it produced? It doesn't make wrong the person being emulated or copied if the 're-run' isn't so good, but it does help if one does respect the original and it's creator I might think (like those words of credit about Bill Everett in the Namor comics).
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Rebecca Jansen
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 February 2018
Location: Canada
Posts: 4559
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| Posted: 31 March 2022 at 12:23pm | IP Logged | 6
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"a story that redefined superhero comics and paved the way for decades of plotting"
Who knew? At the time it was 'just another' exciting and great X-Men story with interesting characters we felt we knew and wanted to know more about... we didn't expect we'd never have it so good again for a long while. :^/
Edited by Rebecca Jansen on 31 March 2022 at 12:23pm
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 136290
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| Posted: 31 March 2022 at 1:41pm | IP Logged | 7
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…who knew…••• Certainly none of us!
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Rebecca Jansen
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 February 2018
Location: Canada
Posts: 4559
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| Posted: 31 March 2022 at 1:58pm | IP Logged | 8
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I was pretty stoked to start seeing Dave Cockrum on the X-Men if there had to be a new co-creator... it sounded like a great team back together on paper, but the title probably should have moved on entirely rather than going back in any way. There was some good art though, especially with Rubenstein or Cockrum himself inking.
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Eric Sofer
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 31 January 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 4759
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| Posted: 31 March 2022 at 3:04pm | IP Logged | 9
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There should have been no "back" to go to , Ms. Jansen. The Phoenix saga - as published - was done and over in X-Men 137. Maybe a reflection or two (which turned into too much), but as Mr. Byrne has noted - Phoenix was the most active "dead" character at Marvel comics.
Days of Future Passed NEVER HAPPENED. According to the story, the key point - the assassinations of Professor Xavier, Senator Kelly, and Moira MacTaggart just DIDN'T OCCUR, so any story that came from that time line was immediately canceled. I'm sure the Watcher could explain it better. but that time line no longer existed once the event that caused it did not take place. No future to have anyone return from.
And as for the incestuous lesbian kiss - a kiss on the cheek is neither lesbian nor incestuous (unless parents kissing their children has gone incestuous. To which I say - seek professional help.)
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Peter Martin
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 March 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 16460
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| Posted: 31 March 2022 at 5:46pm | IP Logged | 10
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#141 was the first Byrne/Claremont X-Men back issue that I ever bought. Great cover. Great story. Great art... And I didn't get to read #142 for years after (I'm talking a long time, at least ten, maybe fifteen years after).
One thing from the article with which I definitely agree with: that the tale is incredibly short yet feels anything but small.
The meat and bones clearly come from JB (and it's a shame that this is sometimes mistakenly overlooked). I think the flourishes Chris added definitely enhanced the tale, so that the whole is a wonderful success benefitting from the input of two major talents.
(For the record, I prefer the first issue to the second. Almost definitely owing to the younger age at which I encountered that first part).
Edited by Peter Martin on 31 March 2022 at 5:47pm
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Rebecca Jansen
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 February 2018
Location: Canada
Posts: 4559
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| Posted: 31 March 2022 at 5:49pm | IP Logged | 11
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I can't remember what I thought of that astral 'kiss' at the time, that was written but not shown, other than, "well, that's fairly weird", but I probably said that often enough. And to think that line could be the lynchpin for so many alternate universes and characters even Uatu maybe couldn't keep them all straight.
I did expect something more with Phoenix though because, well, the mythological bird rises from the ashes... but it would have been something like that one Neal Adams piece of her bursting out of a grave and not Scott Summers stumbling upon a doppelganger and marrying her, which was like Captain Kirk falling deeply in love every other episode of season three of Star Trek, and just diminished his experience with Jean Grey and Phoenix (as one being or not). I haven't been interested in reading more about that relationship until now, hoping for an Elsewhen #32!
Whoever came up with Lockheed the dragon though... I did like him! Best new addition and not even a mutant. There just aren't enough pets in comics (Lockjaw must've gotten lonely). :^)
However, I've been contemplating getting the four '90s annuals that revisit Days, though I doubt I'll ever pay for X-Men Annual #14 (first cameo of Gambit, sigh... never understood that card-throwing character, and more dialect I can do without). I may likely stop at just Fantastic Four Annual #23 though.
Edited by Rebecca Jansen on 31 March 2022 at 5:56pm
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Jim Burdo
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 April 2020
Location: United States
Posts: 374
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| Posted: 01 April 2022 at 1:20am | IP Logged | 12
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DoFP gets callbacks to this day, like in Inferno #3 where it's revealed that one character is the Krakoa version of Kate Pryde.
Ironically, the storyline that JB intended as a clean win for the X-Men, with the dystopian future averted, has been turned into an inevitable doom for mutants.
Claremont probably brought the whole timeline back so he could use Rachel. Contrary to the article, was she really Kate's closest friend?
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