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Charles Valderrama
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 4721
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| Posted: 14 August 2022 at 6:07pm | IP Logged | 1
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This clown has betrayed our national security... among other things... he ignored a subpoena and left classified documents where anyone could see them... or intended to use as some sort of deal with foreign parties.
That’s a felony and if not jail should disqualify him from running for public office. THAT'S the endgame here... and worrying about how his rabid (shrinking) base will react is clearly counter-productive to protecting our democracy.
The Rule of Law should matter.
-C!
Edited by Charles Valderrama on 14 August 2022 at 6:19pm
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John Wickett
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Joined: 12 July 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 804
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| Posted: 14 August 2022 at 6:59pm | IP Logged | 2
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"I think it's very likely Biden issues a pardon..."
I doubt it. There is too much personal enmity between them. Biden's justice department just won't pursue jail time for Trump.
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John Wickett
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 July 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 804
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| Posted: 14 August 2022 at 7:05pm | IP Logged | 3
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"For all that inflation and hysterics about Hilary's own 'classified' (at one time, but were no longer when deleted with authorization) personal e-mails"
According to Comey, the Anthony Weiner laptop contained multiple e-mail chains that were classified as top secret or higher at the time they were sent and received. Also, Clinton deleted more than 30,000 e-mails that were subject to congressional subpoena.
Trump is right that she did the same thing he is accused of. But that doesn't make it okay for him to do it.
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Rebecca Jansen
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 February 2018
Location: Canada
Posts: 4499
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| Posted: 14 August 2022 at 7:05pm | IP Logged | 4
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If he had Russian oligarchs at his inauguration, especially you'd think ones that had been barred from entry into the U.S., something probably should've been done way back then. Oh well, as I say, not like anything important, just y'know, be a 'good guy' and let it go. Bolton says Trump had a 'habit' of grabbing up sensitive documents, and we only knew he shared information with visiting Russians when the photos and details emerged in Russian media.
It is the weakness of the Republican party and it's voters who have allowed all of this in my opinion. They were afraid of losing votes to an independent Trump campaign so allowed him to run in the party thinking he wouldn't succeed perhaps, while he must've sensed enough people on that side able to be conned (I'd say bought except he almost never pays up) with whatever he could promise that they would most want. They 'won' with Trump alrighty, if at minus almost three million to the supposedly evil Hilary muddied with a mountain load of innuendos and retouched photos out across the country on election day, but nobody ever wins 'with' Trump... only he wins, with maybe some crumbs for the genetically superior offspring if they behave. Others go to jail, others foot the bills and pay the debts, other go under or end up dead. He gets his name on things he did nothing real to make, and everything has to be first class, including health care he doesn't have to pay for which the average working person can probably not imagine (how 'he beat' covid, it was so so easy).
The problem might also just be when we stopped putting insane and destructive people away but just dumped them on society in general, and looking the other way for supposedly so so wealthy insane people be they Kennedys or any other b.s. nepotistic dynasty with celebrity status just from being born and for existing. Not to say everyone uses it like the Trumps. The FBI used to have their own untouchables to deal with criminal untouchables like Al Capone; Donald Trump should be 'touchable'. If he isn't there will be another and another and then another to follow. Loopholes like dragnets are for closing!
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Rebecca Jansen
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 February 2018
Location: Canada
Posts: 4499
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| Posted: 14 August 2022 at 7:07pm | IP Logged | 5
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QUOTE:
| she did the same thing he is accused of |
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You may have been told this repeatedly but it does not make it true. State your case with more evidence or it is simply a false equivalency fraud among many hundreds of same.
To me if Trump said the sky was blue I wouldn't admit to it without checking thoroughly.
Emails were classified that set up times for Hilary to make phone calls. Once the call was made they were in no sense sensitive any longer though the numbers and names involved conceivably could be at a great stretch, authorization was given to delete such emails and this 30,000 number is some kind of guesstimate and not reality like many out of thin air numbers spinners of these tales come out with. Comey announcing Hilary was being investigated (while not adding that Trump was also being investigated) was absolutely wrong. Then it was closed and that was announced only for it be re-opened under pressure of loads more innuendo and knowledge of that effected the election and also should not have bee disclosed. And for his service he was thrown under the bus early by Trump and his crooks. yes, lots of smoke, very little behind it, the inverse of what has been going on all along with Trump & co.
Edited by Rebecca Jansen on 14 August 2022 at 7:17pm
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Rebecca Jansen
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 February 2018
Location: Canada
Posts: 4499
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| Posted: 14 August 2022 at 7:22pm | IP Logged | 6
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Comey: I was sure Clinton would win election when I reopened email inquiry.
Some defense that is for doing something he was advised not to and told it would have an effect. Oops? Before this Obama wasn't 'allowed' to have a Supreme Court justice pick as was his job when there was a vacancy... because it was an election year! Again, not normal procedure, but it was done anyway. Slip slide and away.
"he rejected lawyer’s concern about investigation’s potential political impact"
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/apr/13/james-comey- book-hillary-clinton-email-investigation
Edited by Rebecca Jansen on 14 August 2022 at 7:24pm
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James Johnson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 March 2009
Location: United States
Posts: 2057
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| Posted: 14 August 2022 at 7:45pm | IP Logged | 7
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This clown has betrayed our national security... among other things... he ignored a subpoena and left classified documents where anyone could see them... or intended to use as some sort of deal with foreign parties.
That’s a felony and if not jail should disqualify him from running for public office. THAT'S the endgame here... and worrying about how his rabid (shrinking) base will react is clearly counter-productive to protecting our democracy.
The Rule of Law should matter.
=====================================================
Charles,
The Rule of Law SHOULD matter and SHOULD ALWAYS be the case.
But as we have seen over the past 48 years, the people that SHOULD have pushed forward to have these people jailed (Ford & Obama), are AFRAID to do their job.
But LESSER Americans will have the book thrown at them in no time flat.
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Michael Casselman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 14 January 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 1217
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| Posted: 14 August 2022 at 9:07pm | IP Logged | 8
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Emails were classified that set up times for Hilary to make phone calls. Once the call was made they were in no sense sensitive any longer though the numbers and names involved conceivably could be at a great stretch,
_______________________
You know, when I used to work with S/TS/TS-SCI message traffic, I don't recall "Welp, the call was made, guess we can declassify the message" as implicit directive to declassify. That's not how this works... that's not how any of this works.
This is the type of shit that nags the old 74B Information Systems Specialist in me, whether it's the media half-stepping their reporting on the process or politicians playing fast and loose with materials. If Trump was indeed playing fast and loose with classified materials, he needs to be prosecuted every bit as much a Clinton should have. Fuck 'em both.
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Rebecca Jansen
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 February 2018
Location: Canada
Posts: 4499
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| Posted: 14 August 2022 at 9:09pm | IP Logged | 9
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If people are going to be in the streets angry about something, failure to hold those in highest office to even a basic standard like anyone else would be a real thing to be angry about, not made-up Q-anon conspiracy b.s.
Hilary's old news should be case closed... twice; found to have used a private server and phone like many in the same office before, and like the highest office of all still did after all the innuendo about it ('Russia, if you're listening'). Has to be just as bad, no smoke without a fire? Well, remember this same plan at work for another election...
"Aw, c'mon Zelenskyy, just say you're investigating Biden's son. Be a 'good guy'. We can get that aid to you then. Putin doesn't like Biden, it'd keep him happy."
Physically keeping literally top secret files, in an unsecured private residence, lying about having them, having been documented sharing sensitive information with historic adversaries, and moving them to evade discovery. Why is this complicated? Spare the rod = spoiled 'children'... 'strong man' DeSantis up next? Enjoy that Fauci hate merch? Sure... why not, don't want to be divisive, might be seen as politically er, provocative (aka blame the victim, she was asking for it, weakness invited attack, yatta yatta). But a twit caught lying about fooling around with an intern... now that, that was seriously heavy and of course grounds to impeach! "America Held Hostage Day Number #____________", for how many years of the Rush Limpbaugh show? Too bad Trump hasn't had any affairs he's lied about... oh, he has, oh well, don't want to appear political or divisive (shrug). Y'know the nearer your destination the more you slip slide and away.
Good time to blame Biden, or whatever other Democrats (those who actually support most party positions), real good timing there, for some, a very small few already winning at the game not enough people are tired of yet somehow.
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John Wickett
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 July 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 804
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| Posted: 15 August 2022 at 12:33am | IP Logged | 10
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"You may have been told this repeatedly but it does not make it true. State your case with more evidence or it is simply a false equivalency fraud among many hundreds of same."
Around Paragraph 14:
From the group of 30,000 e-mails returned to the State Department, 110 e-mails in 52 e-mail chains have been determined by the owning agency to contain classified information at the time they were sent or received. Eight of those chains contained information that was Top Secret at the time they were sent; 36 chains contained Secret information at the time; and eight contained Confidential information, which is the lowest level of classification. Separate from those, about 2,000 additional e-mails were “up-classified” to make them Confidential; the information in those had not been classified at the time the e-mails were sent.
Around Paragraphs 20-21:
For example, seven e-mail chains concern matters that were classified at the Top Secret/Special Access Program level when they were sent and received. These chains involved Secretary Clinton both sending e-mails about those matters and receiving e-mails from others about the same matters. There is evidence to support a conclusion that any reasonable person in Secretary Clinton’s position, or in the position of those government employees with whom she was corresponding about these matters, should have known that an unclassified system was no place for that conversation. In addition to this highly sensitive information, we also found information that was properly classified as Secret by the U.S. Intelligence Community at the time it was discussed on e-mail (that is, excluding the later “up-classified” e-mails).
None of these e-mails should have been on any kind of unclassified system, but their presence is especially concerning because all of these e-mails were housed on unclassified personal servers not even supported by full-time security staff, like those found at Departments and Agencies of the U.S. Government—or even with a commercial service like Gmail.
Per ABC, Clinton deleted 33000 e-mails her team deemed to be not work related. 17,000 of those were later recovered by the FBI. "Many" were determined to be work related.
Again, not offering this to defend Trump. He may whine about unequal treatment, but his justice department had four years to go after Clinton.
At the end of the day when he says "She did the same thing" my response would be "So what?. Two wrongs don't make a right."
Edited by John Wickett on 15 August 2022 at 12:47am
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John Wickett
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Joined: 12 July 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 804
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| Posted: 15 August 2022 at 12:41am | IP Logged | 11
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"Then it was closed and that was announced only for it be re-opened under pressure of loads more innuendo and knowledge of that effected the election and also should not have bee disclosed."
The investigation was closed before additional e-mails were discovered on Anthony Weiner's laptop. It was reopened because of those e-mails.
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Rebecca Jansen
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 February 2018
Location: Canada
Posts: 4499
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| Posted: 15 August 2022 at 2:38am | IP Logged | 12
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"30,000 e-mails returned to the State Department"
What? Not ruthlessly destroyed by the evil Hilary never to be seen again?
"classified information at the time they were sent or received"
"Top Secret at the time they were sent"
"Secret information at the time"
Yes, at the time of the emails, but the vast number no longer sensitive or so sensitive later.
QUOTE:
| Clinton deleted 33000 e-mails her team deemed to be not work related. 17,000 of those were later recovered by the FBI. "Many" were determined to be work related. |
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So now 16,000 for Russia to find if they were listening?. Work related could mean almost anything sent or received while on the job.
QUOTE:
| The investigation was closed before additional e-mails were discovered on Anthony Weiner's laptop. It was reopened because of those e-mails. |
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And very summarily closed again with much less fanfare than for the re-opening.
More than with the whole Lewinsky'gate', the amount of effort and printspace/airtime put into something so minor as this email'gate' is ludicrous unless you factor in a smear; in other words very politically motivated muddying and confusion sewing, mostly innuendo, especially near an election. The fact she admitted to some wrongdoing must've seemed juicy meat to a bunch that deny even the most obvious caught red-handed malfeasances they commit with real victims (such as the Valerie Plame exposure and the various denials ultimately ending with Bush Jr. commuting Scooter Libby's sentence).
'Two wrongs' are not two wrongs, they are more like one wrong of incompetence shared by previous occupiers of the post that might have caused harm but did not, versus many serious and deliberate wrongs for selfish profit and usually in defiance of specific 'advice' not to do them.
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