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Vinny Valenti
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Posted: 23 November 2022 at 5:15pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply

"but for me a wounding early strike was the final page of AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #100 and the ensuing so-called "Six Arms Saga."

--

I guess it's easy to say that the real Marvel started dying the moment Stan stopped writing most of the books.
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James Johnson
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Posted: 23 November 2022 at 5:31pm | IP Logged | 2 post reply

I'm surprised Marvel hasn't introduced a character named 'Ohotmu' as some omniscient character who catalogs their alternate realities.
Or... have they?

=====================================================

Hmmmmm..... How to pronounce the name?

OH-OT-MU (oh-aht-moo) or O-HOT-MU (o-hot-moo)?

Michael, I think a can of worms has opened..........  A 12 issue special event coming in 2024 with plenty of crossovers.




Edited by James Johnson on 23 November 2022 at 5:33pm
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Peter Martin
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Posted: 23 November 2022 at 5:39pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply


 QUOTE:
I still have a soft spot in my heart for the DELUXE EDITION with the connecting JB covers.

Absolutely! That's the one I still think of as OHOTMU. The original ones with the coloured backgrounds and the big letters on the covvers were just before I started collecting comics.
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Vinny Valenti
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Posted: 24 November 2022 at 12:01am | IP Logged | 4 post reply

"Amazing Gruenie didn't think of that!!"

---

Easily could have been the name of Uatu's older brother!


Edited by Vinny Valenti on 24 November 2022 at 12:01am
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Doug Centers
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Posted: 24 November 2022 at 12:36am | IP Logged | 5 post reply

That series came out a few years after I was out of comics and first heard of it here on this board. Seems to have been referenced here hundreds of times to where I've been teetering back and forth to getting some version of it.

I will admit when I see those initials posted my brain sounds out- OU812


Edited by Doug Centers on 24 November 2022 at 9:50am
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Eric Jansen
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Posted: 24 November 2022 at 7:30am | IP Logged | 6 post reply

I'm not sure if you can blame Gruenwald or even Roy Thomas for Marvel's sometimes DC-ification.  If you read the very earliest THOR stories, they read like Stan Lee writing SUPERMAN.  And the villains in DAREDEVIL were often very similar to those for BATMAN--The Owl (Penguin), the Purple Man AND the Jester (Joker), Mr. Fear (Scarecrow), and the Ani-Men (the Terrible Trio) are pretty obvious, but others easily could have been at home first appearing against Batman--the Matador, the Gladiator, the Masked Marauder, and more.  Was Bullseye inspired by Deadshot?  Even Elektra and the Hand remind of Catwoman (enemy/love) and the League of Assassins.
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Robert Bradley
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Posted: 24 November 2022 at 11:31am | IP Logged | 7 post reply

I guess it's easy to say that the real Marvel started dying the moment Stan stopped writing most of the books.

Vinny, some would say it began when Ditko left THE AMAZING SPIDER-MAN or when Kirby stopped creating characters like the Black Panther, the Silver Surfer and Him for FANTASTIC FOUR.

Others would point to the expansion of Marvel with titles like SILVER SURFER, THE INCREDIBLE HULK, IRON MAN, CAPTAIN AMERICA, NICK FURY AGENT OF S.H.I.E.L.D. and NOT BRAND ECHH!

I would say it was in 1968 and all of the above as Marvel was sold to Martin Ackerman and new creators were brought in.  When the main creators were limited to Lee, Kirby, Ditko, Ayers and Heck the "Marvel Universe" seemed more tied together, but, as great as they were, Romita, Colan, Thomas, Steranko, J. Buscema, M. Severin, Kane etc. brought a different feel to the comany.



Edited by Robert Bradley on 24 November 2022 at 11:33am
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John Byrne
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Posted: 24 November 2022 at 12:34pm | IP Logged | 8 post reply

I’d suggest something vital was lost when the term “Marvel Universe” came into common use.   

Stan had subtly introduced the idea that all those adventures were taking place in our world—as a kid I was more than happy to buy into this—but once “Marvel Universe” was brought into play we slipped into a very DC-like structure, with a “real” world, where we readers lived, and an inaccessible parallel where the characters were found.

I don’t recall exactly when Marvel Universe was coined, but I died a little, inside.

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Michael Penn
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Posted: 24 November 2022 at 12:58pm | IP Logged | 9 post reply

Also, it was great when the adventures of these different superheroes, even if many or most were meant to be centered in and around the actual New York City, still didn't have much if anything to do with each other. 
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Robert Bradley
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Posted: 24 November 2022 at 3:50pm | IP Logged | 10 post reply

You really can't duplicate that experience of the Thing fighting the Hulk for the first time, or the Avengers finding Captain America or Spider-Man and the Human Torch becoming friends.

There were plenty of crossovers early on - for instance, the Hulk was showing up all over the place after his book was cancelled - but they had a a freshness to them and they didn't feel as cheap and marketing-driven as they feel now.

Having a small group of groups helped them maintain the quality as well - Fantastic Four, Avengers, Spider-Man, Daredevil, X-Men, Hulk/Sub-Mariner, Iron Man/Captain America, Doctor Strange/Nick Fury & Thor meant only 9 super-hero titles to keep track of.  Throw in Sgt. Fury, Kid Colt, the Two-Gun Kid, the Rawhide Kid, Patsy Walker and Millie the Model and you had pretty much the complete line.

Marvel's real reason for success was creators like Stan Lee, Jack Kirby, Steve Ditko, Don Heck, Dick Ayers, Al Hartley, Werner Roth, Stan Goldberg, Jack Keller, John Romita, Wally Wood and Larry Leiber.

I would probaby saw Marvel peaked around 1966 (with the Galactus trilogy being their crown jewel, but also "Cap's Kooky Quartet" in the Avengers, Thor meeting Hercules and the Olympians and the tail end of Ditko's Spider-Man)
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Peter Martin
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Posted: 24 November 2022 at 4:14pm | IP Logged | 11 post reply

Guest appearances were plentiful from very early on (just think of Amazing Spider-Man #1). In general, they were pretty minor though and didn't feel part of some plan (most likely because they weren't). The heroes would bump into each other or sometimes a hero would simply spot another one on their way somewhere.

I'd characterise it as fun rather than onerous. That changed at some point.
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John Byrne
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Posted: 24 November 2022 at 4:43pm | IP Logged | 12 post reply

As I’ve mentioned, Roger Stern considers the publication of MARVEL TEAM-UP as the end of the real Marvel. That was the first time the integrity of a character—Spider-Man, the eternal loner—was sacrificed on the altar of Mammon.
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