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Harry Dounis Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 06 October 2022 Location: United States Posts: 93
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Posted: 11 January 2023 at 12:49am | IP Logged | 1
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JB, when you handed off the reigns to AF did you share any of your creative vision with the new writers as to where you saw things going with the team? If so, did any of it actually come to print? I know that you had said that you always intended for Mac to die but it almost felt (to me at least) that you would much prefer to kill your creations yourself than let their fates be determined by your successors. After having seen where the title wound up I wouldn't be surprised...Lastly, has the passage of time changed or softened any of your opinions regarding your perceptions or fondness of the team? Especially after seeing how this forum in particular highlights what the team meant to so many readers through the years? I have always felt that AF was the foil to a great many teams, had a great backstory and very interesting individual character origins and tribulations. And most certainly was much more than "a team that could survive a fight with the X-Men"
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 132279
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Posted: 11 January 2023 at 1:45am | IP Logged | 2
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Bill Mantlo wanted a clean slate when he took over, so he didn’t ask for any ideas I was planning.
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Craig Earl Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 13 July 2019 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 1249
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Posted: 11 January 2023 at 7:28am | IP Logged | 3
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Unfortunately, Mantlo's stint involved a hell of a lot of deconstruction, so there was no possibility of a 'smooth transition'. I can remember reading the Puck 'origin' issue (#32) and wondering what the hell was happening..?
It remains, for me, the most jarring change of creative teams that I can recall (certainly, on a book that I had previously loved).
Rightly or wrongly, it was one of those rare moments where I thought: 'I genuinely think that I can do better..!'
Still, AF's loss was Hulk's gain..!
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Paul Greer Byrne Robotics Security
Joined: 18 August 2004 Posts: 14186
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Posted: 11 January 2023 at 10:19am | IP Logged | 4
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Mantlo's take on the characters was complete trash. JB had created a wonderful group of fleshed out and new characters for Marvel, and Mantlo just came in and destroyed them within months. Thankfully, no one talks positively about anything but those first 28 issues. Which still hold up as classics.
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Eric Ladd Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 August 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 4506
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Posted: 11 January 2023 at 1:30pm | IP Logged | 5
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I wonder how much blame should go to editorial for this change? Someone had to make the decision to give Mantlo the gig and I presume the direction of Alpha Flight was discussed prior to that decision. The change drove me away from AF and I think this is the most outrageous case of someone new coming in and absolutely trashing what came previously.
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Steven Myers Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 10 June 2004 Location: United States Posts: 5624
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Posted: 11 January 2023 at 2:33pm | IP Logged | 6
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I only read Mantlo's first issue. I knew I couldn't take any more. This also seems to be the time in his career when Mantlo was not writing his best. I believe overall he was an average writer, but he wrote some very very good stories also. I recently read the first year of Sons of the Tiger and he really saved that series.
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Brian Miller Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 28 July 2004 Location: United States Posts: 30897
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Posted: 11 January 2023 at 3:15pm | IP Logged | 7
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I kept up with it for a few months after the switch. I missed a couple of issues but caught enough not to stay with it. I have since gotten the rest of the Mantlo run and those first issues seem like masterpieces compared to where it all ended up going. Even early Jim Lee art couldn’t save the stories. Those earlier issues did have some great Mignola art and covers, tho.
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Peter Martin Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 March 2008 Location: Canada Posts: 15794
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Posted: 11 January 2023 at 3:54pm | IP Logged | 8
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I bought Alpha Flight 29 off the stands when I was 10 years old. I thought the Mignola art was good (still do) and the story was fine for me back then.
I bought a handful of the post-Byrne issues, but my irregular visits to places that sold comics meant there were gaps in between. I think I bought (or read, sometimes you just borrowed from a friend) 29, 32, 35, 36, 38, 40 ,43.. and that was it for me. Things got increasingly wonky as the issues progressed.
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Peter Martin Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 March 2008 Location: Canada Posts: 15794
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Posted: 11 January 2023 at 3:56pm | IP Logged | 9
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Oh yeah, like a mug I did years later buy #100. It was pretty unreadable.
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Andrew Bitner Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 June 2004 Location: United States Posts: 7482
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Posted: 11 January 2023 at 4:14pm | IP Logged | 10
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Much as I appreciate the great work Bill Mantlo did on other titles, his tenure on AF was awful. Didn't get the characters, didn't build on anything that came before, and worst of all--it was generic, something AF had never been.Pretty much everything post-JB is best written off as fanfic, in my mind, as it really wrecked what made the book and team special.
Edited by Andrew Bitner on 11 January 2023 at 4:15pm
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James Woodcock Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 September 2007 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 7612
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Posted: 11 January 2023 at 6:39pm | IP Logged | 11
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I agree with the comments above.
I really liked Mantlo on Micronauts & ROM, but his Alpha Flight was a mess.
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Josh Goldberg Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 25 October 2005 Location: United States Posts: 2065
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Posted: 11 January 2023 at 6:42pm | IP Logged | 12
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It's a long time ago to remember, but I'm sure I didn't last more than one or two issues post-JB.
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