Active Topics | Member List | Search | Help | Register | Login
The John Byrne Forum
Byrne Robotics > The John Byrne Forum << Prev Page of 8 Next >>
Topic: Yes, Another Alpha Flight Question for JB... Post ReplyPost New Topic
Author
Message
Dave Kopperman
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 27 December 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 3138
Posted: 12 January 2023 at 4:41pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply

Yeah, I must have intuited some of that even as a 13-year-old. It felt like more of the author's experiences - rather than the author's preoccupations - coming through than most of the other comics I was reading at the time.
Back to Top profile | search | www
 
Evan S. Kurtz
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 04 July 2022
Location: Canada
Posts: 41
Posted: 12 January 2023 at 5:13pm | IP Logged | 2 post reply

JB, I know you aren't particularly keen on any of the MCU stuff, but I am really hopeful we see some form of Alpha Flight in film someday. If mutants are coming, I feel like it's only a matter of time! 
Back to Top profile | search
 
John Byrne
Avatar
Grumpy Old Guy

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132279
Posted: 12 January 2023 at 5:52pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply

I dread seeing any of the characters on the screen. I’m sure it would be played as Doug and Bob MacKenzie as superheroes.
Back to Top profile | search
 
Joe Smith
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 29 August 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 6601
Posted: 12 January 2023 at 7:21pm | IP Logged | 4 post reply

We all understand that dread, and we share it with you, however, with so
many proud Canadians being Hollywood elite in this era, I think it will be
immense. I dream of seeing Tundra. That’s a visual so cinematic just the
way it was drawn! The Great Beasts!?! Bring that movie MCU!!
Back to Top profile | search | www e-mail
 
John Byrne
Avatar
Grumpy Old Guy

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132279
Posted: 12 January 2023 at 7:35pm | IP Logged | 5 post reply

Proud Canadians? How many times have we seen people who profess to being “big fans” of some character or concept proceed to work on projects that turn everything upside down? Not to mention the whole thing being filtered thru the Hollywood mentality.

Back to Top profile | search
 
Tim O Neill
Byrne Robotics Security


Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 10926
Posted: 13 January 2023 at 1:39am | IP Logged | 6 post reply


I didn't read some of the Mantlo issues until much later, and I think it is
instructive to read them as he did something a lot of writers did when either
following JB on a title or when they were influenced by JB's work.

Mantlo fell into the trap in which they misinterpreted what made JB's writing
strong. It seemed like he would change things or alter characters just for the
sake of change. While JB's work is marked by characters going through
dramatic change, it is purposeful and part of the arc of the characters and
story. And more often than not the characters or the nature of the book would
ultimately return to where it started.

Another example that comes to mind is Thing in FF - JB reverted him to his
original form, and then he slowly "came back" to the form we know. When JB
left, a creative team suddenly had Thing in a weird spiked rock form. It keyed
off of JB's work, but missed the point.

Mantlo's ALPHA FLIGHT is especially jarring because the title is a pure JB
creation. There's more subtlety in the characters and drama, and it contrasts
with great Marvel storytelling in a unique stew that Mantlo just could not grasp.

ALPHA FLIGHT is good because JB defined the story with those 28 issues, and
it never really recovered. If they do appear on TV or in film, I would hope MCU
would have the good sense to hire JB to write it!

Back to Top profile | search
 
Peter Martin
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 17 March 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 15794
Posted: 13 January 2023 at 2:05am | IP Logged | 7 post reply

Unique stew is a good way to describe it. Weird stew maybe as well. Some of the stories had a kind of horror vibe to them.
Back to Top profile | search
 
Josh Goldberg
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 25 October 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 2065
Posted: 13 January 2023 at 2:06am | IP Logged | 8 post reply

JB has often spoke of the illusion of change.
Back to Top profile | search
 
Peter Martin
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 17 March 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 15794
Posted: 13 January 2023 at 2:34am | IP Logged | 9 post reply

Does the illusion of change apply that well to AF though? Mac dying was not supposed to be an illusion. The post-Byrne issues treated it as such, but it was clearly meant to be a hard change. Walt dying seemed to have an element of permanence as well -- and even if he was somehow planned to come back, Sasquatch was kind of done once the connection to the Great Beasts was confirmed.  
Back to Top profile | search
 
James Woodcock
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 21 September 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 7612
Posted: 13 January 2023 at 6:47am | IP Logged | 10 post reply

If Alpha Floght were ever to appear in the MCU, you can guarantee that they
will die by the end of the appearance. Because that remains the key
takeaway that writers have for these characters - they die.
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Jim Petersman
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 26 June 2012
Location: United States
Posts: 625
Posted: 13 January 2023 at 3:10pm | IP Logged | 11 post reply

I seem to recall some element of the deaths being tied into Shaman's history. Didn't his grandfather die on the same day (different year) that Michael's wife died? Which was the same day Mac died (again, different year)? If my memory is correct, it seems like the regularly occurring deaths was destined to wrap up eventually.

And watching the humanity drain out the characters when new writers would take over was always the saddest part of the transition. JB would run the perfect lap, skillfully pass off the baton, and they'd just stand there and fart.
Back to Top profile | search
 
Greg McPhee
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 25 August 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 5065
Posted: 13 January 2023 at 4:14pm | IP Logged | 12 post reply

Mantlo had so much ground work, plots and characters to work with, but, as Tim said he misinterpreted everything.

He changed, removed or killed off so many characters that by the end of his run he really was painted in to a really bad creative corner.

His retcons on the backgrounds of Northstar and Aurora were terrible, he wrote Shaman and Talisman out of the series for no good reason, killed off Box and Snowbird and resolved the Sasquatch resurrection problem in a terrible way that sacrificed Snowbird for it.

I find it interesting that, after JB put so much time into making Alpha Flight into a very fluid understanding of what it means to be a superteam, that Mantlo would immediately reverse those changes, and make them Canada’s Avengers for a while. 

Later, he dismantled them again, and left it kind of unclear how this team operates best – as a defunded group of individuals spread across a vast country, or as a traditional team where everyone lives in the same awesome mansion.

His additions / replacements were terrible. Laura Dean, Goblyn, Purple Girl, and Manikin. Taking Madison Jeffries from being a shy version of Ben Grimm to being the backbone of the team?!

The most memorable things of the Mantlo run were; Heather becoming Vindicator (which I think was a wrong move), revamping Yuriko Oyama in to Lady Deathstrike and the debut of Jim Lee to Marvel.
Back to Top profile | search
 

<< Prev Page of 8 Next >>
  Post ReplyPost New Topic
Printable version Printable version

Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

 Active Topics | Member List | Search | Help | Register | Login