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Glenn Moane
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 August 2004
Posts: 207
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| Posted: 09 June 2006 at 6:50am | IP Logged | 1
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As stated, if the lie-trick makes a good and interesting comic, what's the problem?
(I haven't read those either by the way. Are they good?)
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Gerry Turnbull
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: Scotland
Posts: 8767
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| Posted: 09 June 2006 at 6:54am | IP Logged | 2
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it also has some outstanding art by Gary Leach,Alan Davis and John Totleben.
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Gene Kendall
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 13 September 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 209
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| Posted: 09 June 2006 at 6:55am | IP Logged | 3
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I liked most of them, but I was only familiar with Captain Britain years after Moore's retcons, and it's not as if I had affection for WildC.A.T.S. in the first place. If I had already been a regular reader of these titles and then saw what Moore had done, I don't know what I would've thought. In WildC.A.T.S., Moore revealed that the war between the two alien races stuck on earth had actually been over for hundreds of years, which completely tossed out the whole premise of the series.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132279
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| Posted: 09 June 2006 at 6:57am | IP Logged | 4
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I haven't read those either by the way. Are they good?**** Let's see now, how many of Moore's series have you not read, so far? Seems your grounds for dismissing my comment are rapidly approaching non-existant. Oh -- and "but it's a good story" is the biggest load of crap ever foisted on the reading audience. Any story which deliberately violates core concepts and themes of original materials is not, by definition "a good story". Time some people pulled their heads out of various writers asses and realized that.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 09 June 2006 at 6:58am | IP Logged | 5
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Moore revealed that the war between the two alien races stuck on earth had actually been over for hundreds of years, which completely tossed out the whole premise of the series. *** Moore is practically the poster boy for the Type B writer -- the one who wants the characters to serve his story, rather than the other way around.
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Glenn Moane
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 August 2004
Posts: 207
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| Posted: 09 June 2006 at 7:06am | IP Logged | 6
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Oki, Mister Byrne, I have read the following works of Alan Moore:
Swamp Thing (entire run)
League of Extraordinary Gentlemen
Watchmen
Top Ten
Tom Strong
V for Vendetta
From Hell
Various Future Shock tales
Promethea
Smax the Barbarian
Whatever happened to the Man of Tomorrow?
Albion
Big Numbers
The Ballad of Halo Jones
Batman the Killing Joke
and probably some others that I can't recall right now.
Byrne, your statement was that deconstructionists like Moore HAD NO STORY ELSE TO TELL than "everything you know is a lie". I still think that's a generalization, based on the books of Moore that I have read.
As for your opinion of "good story", let's just agree to disagree. A changing of a core concept isn't always a turn for the worse. I found the Swamp Thing "revamp" to be rather clever, it made up for an interesting read, and I liked it.
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Gerry Turnbull
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: Scotland
Posts: 8767
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| Posted: 09 June 2006 at 7:11am | IP Logged | 7
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i think the matrix ripped of Miracleman heavily also.
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Gerry Turnbull
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: Scotland
Posts: 8767
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| Posted: 09 June 2006 at 7:12am | IP Logged | 8
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Michael Penn
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 April 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 12437
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| Posted: 09 June 2006 at 7:14am | IP Logged | 9
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QUOTE:
| morphed into a nation of nihilistic whiners |
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Are we Americans seen like that? ARE we like that?
QUOTE:
| A changing of a core concept isn't always a turn for the worse |
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If you're changing core concepts, why bother with a pre-existing character at all?
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Matt Linton
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 13 December 2005
Posts: 2022
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| Posted: 09 June 2006 at 7:26am | IP Logged | 10
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Considering Jim Lee owned/created WildC.A.T.S and hired Alan Moore to write it, I'd assume he had no problem with what Moore did, so I don't think that qualifies as violating the core concept.
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Dave Phelps
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 4178
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| Posted: 09 June 2006 at 7:26am | IP Logged | 11
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QUOTE:
| is there a trade of the early Miracleman [Moore/Gaiman] stories? |
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Yeah, but you'd have better luck if you just looked for the individual issues. Trades are running $70+ a pop these days while you can find the Eclipse series for a few bucks apiece (with the exception of #15, but you still come out ahead in the long run). #1-16 is Moore, #17-25 is Gaiman. The last two Gaiman issues haven't been reprinted.
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Deepak Ramani
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 May 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 85
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| Posted: 09 June 2006 at 7:36am | IP Logged | 12
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Glenn Kendall wrote:
| If I had already been a regular reader of these titles and then saw what Moore had done, I don't know what I would've thought. In WildC.A.T.S., Moore revealed that the war between the two alien races stuck on earth had actually been over for hundreds of years, which completely tossed out the whole premise of the series. |
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Do people just hire Moore and tell him to have fun? Do the editors even ask for proposals or story pitches? I seem to recall mention that he had proposed essentially his entire Swamp Thing run at the beginning of his work on the series. (I haven't read this in years, so it's entirely possible that I am misremembering. I will try to locate the quote I am thinking of.) I also remember some editor commentary from Supreme indicating that Moore and the editor had talked about his plans for Supreme, which surely experienced the most radical changes of any character under Moore. (Once again I will try to locate a reference.)
I'm guessing the editors who, nowadays, hire Moore to work on characters he didn't create are probably expecting that he will change them.
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