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Joe Mayer
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 24 January 2005
Posts: 1398
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| Posted: 13 July 2006 at 6:58am | IP Logged | 1
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If people wish to have a more informed opinion, here is a link to the complete interview.
http://www.newsarama.com/marvelnew/Eternals/GaimanEternals.h tml
He does praise Kirby highly and it sounds like he was reading everything Kirby did. Neil is also one of the nicest and most humble guys out there. It is almost funny to hear people think he is so arrogant. In the end, the guy is entitled to his informed opinion (and you would be hard pressed to convince me his isn't more informed than anyone bashing him) and just as entitled to share it as anyone here is.
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Jon Godson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 05 January 2005
Posts: 2468
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| Posted: 13 July 2006 at 7:42am | IP Logged | 2
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I love Gaiman and I love the Eternals and this new book is great.
Gaiman probably used a poor choice of words, but then again who on this
board hasn't at one point or another. Nobody is perfect.
I'll give him a pass and wish him much success.
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Robert Cosgrove
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 January 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 1710
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| Posted: 13 July 2006 at 7:29pm | IP Logged | 3
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Not to belabor the obvious, but Gaiman, whose virtues are many (and I
admire them) is not himself an artist, and Kirby, of course, was.
Twomorrows Jack Kirby Collector ran a piece on favorite Kirby moments, and
I found it interesting that Gaiman singled out a page from the Demon where
the Howler and the Demon were in adjacent seats in an airplane, neither
recognizing he other. It was an interesting choice, but what struck me
about it was that its merits were entirely literary and totally divorced from
any visual dynamics. The people who best follow Kirby understand him at a
core, conceptual level. How much of that depends on being able to draw?
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132391
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| Posted: 13 July 2006 at 7:40pm | IP Logged | 4
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I'll say it bluntly -- for a writer to capture what Kirby did, s/he must do what Stan Lee did: find someone with Kirby's vision and turn 'em loose. If what comes back is maybe sometimes a little clichéd and hoaky, then that's where the writer earns his salt. That's where Stan shone. Take the pictures, and turn them into something even bigger, even grander. But you can't do that without the art to start with.There is a world of difference between a writer typing "a silvery figure zooms thru space on a gleaming, cosmic surfboard..." and. . . 
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Chris Blaise
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 299
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| Posted: 14 July 2006 at 7:11am | IP Logged | 5
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I picked up the hardcover as well and while I'm only halfway though it, I love it! Really great stuff and I think I'll have to pick up the novel Kirby based it on too.
My only complaint is that I think it would work better if it wasn't part of the Marvel universe. I think it made it too crowded, even for that earlier time in the Marvel universe.
(I love that they used the new "Omnibus" format and wish they'd switch Masterworks to it.)
Based on the Kirby stories, I decided to try the first issue of the new Eternals series and enjoyed it enough that I'll be trying the next issue. The JRjr sketchbook was great too.
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Joe Zhang
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 12857
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| Posted: 14 July 2006 at 7:22am | IP Logged | 6
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Well, I'm sure someday some pretentious young writer will decalre
Gaiman as having not gotten Sandman quite right. And there will be
Gaiman fans who reject that, the same ones who accept the superiority
of his revision of the Eternals now.
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Karl Bollers
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 09 May 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 185
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| Posted: 14 July 2006 at 11:17am | IP Logged | 7
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Well, I'm sure someday some pretentious young writer will decalre
Gaiman as having not gotten Sandman quite right.
*******
The difference between SANDMAN and ETERNALS is that the former was a commercial success for DC while that wasn't the case for the latter at Marvel. Trust me, I loved Kirby's ETERNALS, but not many feel the same way. Having worked with Neil in the past, I also believe that he might not have used the best choice of words, but I don't see this as hard evidence of him disrespecting the late Mr. Kirby.
And there will be
Gaiman fans who reject that, the same ones who accept the superiority
of his revision of the Eternals now.
********
I have read every issue of Kirby's ETERNALS (even following it up with the Peter B. Gillis run in the 80s) and have co-written an ETERNALS one-shot. After reading the first issue of the current series, I had no impression that any revisions were being made. There is a mystery, to be sure, but I see this as no indication that prior continuity is being ignored. As a matter of fact, Gaiman even references events from the original Kirby series...I'm interested to see what he adds to the mythos.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 14 July 2006 at 11:24am | IP Logged | 8
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The difference between SANDMAN and ETERNALS is that the former was a commercial success for DC while that wasn't the case for the latter at Marvel. Trust me, I loved Kirby's ETERNALS, but not many feel the same way. Having worked with Neil in the past, I also believe that he might not have used the best choice of words, but I don't see this as hard evidence of him disrespecting the late Mr. Kirby. **** That depends on how you define "commercial success". SANDMAN was/is published thru Vertigo, and the expectations over there are a lot lower than in the other DC departments. If SANDMAN had been published as a regular DC book, alongside SUPERMAN and BATMAN, it would not hve been seen as quite such a "success". (This is, of course, of of the things Vertigo has to offer. Books that might crash and burn elsewhere have the advantage of DC's deep pockets, as well as lowered expectations. It's at Vertigo that people really are encourage to "grow roses" and not sweat the more commercial aspects of the business.) +++++++ I have read every issue of Kirby's ETERNALS (even following it up with the Peter B. Gillis run in the 80s) and have co-written an ETERNALS one-shot. After reading the first issue of the current series, I had no impression that any revisions were being made. There is a mystery, to be sure, but I see this as no indication that prior continuity is being ignored. As a matter of fact, Gaiman even references events from the original Kirby series...I'm interested to see what he adds to the mythos. *** Since Gaiman has informed us that Kirby "got it wrong" it would seem a bit pollyanna to assume that he will continue the game plan Kirby set in motion. I somehow cannot imagine Gaiman, after a year on THE ETERNALS, cheerily announcing "See? I got it wrong, too!"
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Joe Zhang
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 12857
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| Posted: 14 July 2006 at 11:52am | IP Logged | 9
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"The difference between SANDMAN and ETERNALS is that the former was a
commercial success for DC while that wasn't the case for the latter at
Marvel."
So for you, as a writer, creatively "right" means whereever the $$$ is.
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Jon Godson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 05 January 2005
Posts: 2468
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| Posted: 14 July 2006 at 12:03pm | IP Logged | 10
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So for you, as a writer, creatively "right" means whereever the $$$ is.
************
Yes. That's exactly what Gaiman meant. Because the Eternals wasn't a
commercial success, then Kirby got it wrong.
Or...
Read all of what Gaiman said and one realizes that he has great respect for
Kirby and the Eternals.
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Andrew Bitner
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 June 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 7496
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| Posted: 14 July 2006 at 12:05pm | IP Logged | 11
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Eternals seemed like Kirby cutting loose and going as cosmic as he wanted-- and given that he seemed prone to "thinking big," that was pretty darn cosmic!
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Joe Zhang
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
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| Posted: 14 July 2006 at 12:10pm | IP Logged | 12
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"Read all of what Gaiman said and one realizes that he has great respect for
Kirby and the Eternals."
He may feel positively, but he has expressed doubts about it.
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