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Topic: John Byrne - Threat or Menace? (Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post ReplyPost New Topic
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Thomas Gerhardt
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Joined: 14 March 2005
Location: Germany
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Posted: 03 July 2006 at 8:48am | IP Logged | 1  

Yes, Joe, sadly yes.

The way Superman is now, the character is hardly what he was in 1986.
They took away most of the things that made me care about him when I
was younger, most of the things that were inserted by Byrne when he re-
vamped him.

The depth of the backstory (the arrogance of technology/the de-
humanization of the Kryptonian people) that led to Krypton's desctruction
– gone, replaced, taken out of continuity

The vulnerability that showed Clark is the real person, not Superman –
gone

The very best Superman story (continuity-wise, a mess, I know) in which
he hs to kill the Kryptonian criminals in the pocket universe. Gone

In ACTION, he was merely an illustrator

Sorry.

(and I did buy a few issues...in some of them, it didn't even look like the
Byrne Superman. For example, I did love GENERATIONS...those were fun
rides...)

Edited by Thomas Gerhardt on 03 July 2006 at 8:51am
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Dave Carr
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Posted: 03 July 2006 at 9:06am | IP Logged | 2  

 Thomas Gerhardt wrote:
In ACTION, he was merely an illustrator


That's like saying Michelangelo "merely" painted churches.


Edited by Dave Carr on 03 July 2006 at 9:07am
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John Byrne
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Joined: 11 May 2005
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Posted: 03 July 2006 at 9:42am | IP Logged | 3  

If you are nice to someone, they will probably be nice and civil back.  COMMON SENSE to me.

***

I usually play the cards I'm dealt. Which is, as you note, one of the reasons I don't do cons any more. Too many sad boys who want to collect their own "Bad Byrne" story, and come in with guns a-blazin' trying to provoke me. 99 times out of 100, they fail -- in which case they just make up a story -- but sometimes they succeed. In the end, it's simply not worth the energy.

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John Byrne
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Posted: 03 July 2006 at 9:44am | IP Logged | 4  

...he was absolutely stunning people left and right when he made Superman his own...

***

In fact, I was pilloried for my work on Superman, and in some quarters still am.

+++

I just think Byrne can be better than what he is doing right now. Like, a proper European GN series (I can hook you up with a French agent LOL not that you need that) or a VERTIGO series that has a fresh view on something that he does best: science fiction.

***

That sounds like you're saying I should change my work to suit your changing tastes.

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Jon Godson
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Posted: 03 July 2006 at 9:48am | IP Logged | 5  

that has a fresh view on something that he does best: science fiction.

***************

Me too. It wasn't the Reed, Sue, Johnny, and the Thing that started me
reading FF. It was "Into the Negative Zone!"   Then I was hooked!

Edited to add:

If the FF had just stayed in the Negative Zone in that way-cool ship for a
year or longer, I would have been the happiest comic reader ever!

Edited by Jon Godson on 03 July 2006 at 9:49am
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Paul Greer
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Posted: 03 July 2006 at 9:50am | IP Logged | 6  

For arguments sake, let's say JB offended you at a con or online. He made you so angry that you didn't want to read his work anymore. Great time to move on to another creator who treated you like a king when you talked to him. Good for new creator, bad for JB.

Yet, it seems that everyone who feels slighted by JB can't stop talking about him, reading about him or follow his every action online. Like a lover who has been scorned they can't stop dreaming about the great times of their relationship. (Oh when I loved him and he was on the Fantastic Four those were the best times) But like a lover who can't get over the fact their favorite moved on they stalk and criticize their current relationship. (Doom Patrol is not as pretty as Wonder Woman, doesn't he know that I loved him more when he was doing Namor? Come back to what I loved you on so I can love again!) He is the love that didn't live up to your impossible to meet expectations and now you want to drag his name in the mud. If this were the real world and not online, I would think JB would have to take out a restraining order for a lot of people. So all you former slighted fans please keep 15 links away from this website at all times.



Edited by Paul Greer on 03 July 2006 at 9:51am
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Orlando Teuta Jr
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Posted: 03 July 2006 at 9:50am | IP Logged | 7  

JB,
 Weren't the detractors in the minority? I remember how exciting it was to have you guide the "new" Superman, and I believe, if sales are any indication, many folks agreed. 
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John Byrne
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Posted: 03 July 2006 at 9:59am | IP Logged | 8  

The detractors were in the minority, but they were a LOUD and often well-postioned minority. Plus, as it has become popular to dis my work with increasing vehemence, even those who once spoke favorably of my Superman days have started chirping a whole new tune. The "club" grows retroactively.
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Steve Horton
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Posted: 03 July 2006 at 10:20am | IP Logged | 9  

Heh - they're retconning themselves into never having liked your work. "Post-Crisis" fans.

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Brandon Pennison
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Posted: 03 July 2006 at 10:22am | IP Logged | 10  

Now that you mention it, JB, outside of this forum, I have not heard many positives about your Superman.  Since I was not a DC guy in 1986/87, I recently bought the run at a local comic shop and read them and I enjoyed the series.  Obviously, I enjoyed the art and I thought the stories you told were great.  In fact, the only back issues I buy now when my shop has a sale are whatever Byrne issues of Fantastic Four, Hulk or other Marvel titles I don't own as well as Walt Simonson's run on Thor.  After I acquire all of those, I am pretty sure I am done with back issues.  I wish more of your detractors would actually go back and read the books they criticize before they dis your work because it is obvious that they haven't and don't.
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Bruce Buchanan
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Posted: 03 July 2006 at 10:38am | IP Logged | 11  

Plus, as it has become popular to dis my work with increasing vehemence, even those who once spoke favorably of my Superman days have started chirping a whole new tune. The "club" grows retroactively.

******

Could be, but you obviously have a pretty sizable and loyal fan following, too. Plenty of fans (many of whom have never even heard of this board) still enjoy your work, past and present.

As for the whole "Bad Byrne" deal, it's hard to understand how a creator who has posted 22,000+ times on a fan site can be considered (by some) to be unfriendly to fans. Seems to me that if you didn't like the fans, you would stay as far away from these types of discussions as possible.

If anything, JB, you may be guilty of being too open. In the real-time world of message boards, it's easy to understand calling someone "an idiot" or other name in the context of a heated debate, particularly if you have had previous dealings with that poster.

But it's also understandable how someone who doesn't know the context could say, "Boy, John Byrne sure was rude to that guy." Even though message board comments are the equivalent of a bar room discussion, they become a permanent transcript in a way that casual conversations never do. Sometimes, it's better to step away from the computer, walk around the room, maybe turn on the TV before clicking the "Post Reply" button. I know how tough that can be, though - I certainly don't always take my own advice.

 

 

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Ian Evans
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Posted: 03 July 2006 at 10:56am | IP Logged | 12  

I'm torn on this...JBs forthright style is one of my reasons for coming here at all; I think his posts are entertaining and informative in about equal measure.  Too, it would stick in my craw somewhat to think that the campaigning against him by the small number of individuals elsewhere had borne fruit in getting him to modify his behaviour.  However, if it would help him to restore his rightful position in the industry, as a huge fan of his, it might be worth losing a little of what I like.

As ever, it's his call, and his cause to hurt if he wishes (if indeed 'it' does hurt it).  But it is surely undeniable that his net presence here is fantastc, and greatly appeciated even by a lapsed comic buyer like me

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