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Topic: John Byrne - Threat or Menace? (Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post ReplyPost New Topic
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Mike O'Brien
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Posted: 03 July 2006 at 10:58am | IP Logged | 1  

In fact, I did react poorly, and realize it - partially, I deleted my posts, Luke, because I was just flying off the handle and talking crazy shit, but more importantly, because I don't know how I fell into debating Alan Moore - I care more about some shit I stepped in 5 years ago than I do about Alan Moore - and yet there I was, trapped in some stupid debate I didn't even care about.

But what's more - and here's where Dave lost it all - he started that same bullshit that the scum on the other boards do - takes something I said, and throws it back at me out of context - I brought up serial killer, Hitler and NAMBLA, yes, and yes, they're loaded examples, but I brought them up to make a point about bad logic.  Not to compare him to them, but to show that everyone can start right, and think they're right, but if you can distance yourself from your position... well...

But here's the thing - for as long as I've seen Byrne posting on the internet, people have taken his exact words and done the same thing - thrown them back at him in ways that make him out to be the racist, the asshole, whatever.  And in the last year or so, they've been doing it to me and a few others on here. 

My reply was to not give them the pleasure of it this time.  They'll have nothing to quote from.  If they're going to make shit up, they'll have to do without help from me.

But Dave, you're right - my apology was pretty half-hearted, and I did act wrong, so... I will accept a banning.  Bring it on, mods.  Ban me.  We must keep Dave happy.  Ban away.  I don't give a flying fuck.  I enjoy posting here, but if I've finally crossed some line, then I'm ok with saying "So Long" to you guys. 

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Matt Reed
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Posted: 03 July 2006 at 11:03am | IP Logged | 2  

No "so long" post necessary, Mike.  I got what you meant in context, as anyone who read what you wrote should have.  "Scratch an offendee and you'll find an offender" and so forth.  Heated debates are nothing new here.  Personally, I don't like being called out for not taking action at 12:30 AM this morning when I was asleep, but what can you do? You're good.  I will add, however, that you shouldn't worry about being taken out of context.  No need to delete your replies in this thread or elsewhere to prove a point.  Say what you say, how you say it and stand behind your convictions.  Better that than to erase all of what you wrote in order to not give fodder to people you couldn't give two shits about anyway.
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John Mietus
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Posted: 03 July 2006 at 11:17am | IP Logged | 3  

I don't give two shits about what some idiot on another comic book internet
forum might do with taking anything I say in or out of context.

Then again, my career isn't affected by self-same idiots.
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Emery Calame
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Posted: 03 July 2006 at 11:19am | IP Logged | 4  

First people wanted to see super heroes fuck.

Now they supposedly want to see Alice in Wonder Land and Dorothy of Kansas fuck. {sarcasm} Great. Progress.{/sarcasm}

Personally I want to see Marvin the Martian fuck but that's mostly out of morbid curiosity regarding the potential humor of it (Ow! You're lying on my hair! Wha? You don't even HAVE hair!) and there's really no point now that Chuck Jones and Mel Blanc are both dead anyway.

Bring on the Sexual Adventures of Paddington Bear(from when he was a cocaine addicted dupe of the CIA penetrating UK security at the height of the cold war) and woe to any that are so base and tasteless, and simple, and stupidly parochial as to raise an objection. No one can hope to stand in the way of such a fundamental force for change and progress. Why that's practically book burning.  

No doubt "the Sexual Adventures of Paddington Bear" will be the artistic pinnacle...nay..the very capstone of the Cenozoic era. It will be the finest work of any mammal!  What fool would dare seek to rob all humanity of that? Y'know. By criticiszing it on high conceptual grounds alone. Crazy.

OMG! It's Tropic of Cancer all over again! Except with childhood fantasy characters! DEFEND THE LIBERTY CON QUESO DESPUES!!!



Edited by Emery Calame on 03 July 2006 at 11:28am
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Chuck Wells
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Posted: 03 July 2006 at 11:21am | IP Logged | 5  

Once, on this very board and during a discussion on some thread (about something), I commented on a remark that JB had made and he responded by comparing me to Kreskin.

It still royally cracks me up whenever I think about it.  Funny stuff!

I've gotten to see / meet / interact with the Byrnemeister twice at Dragoncon in Atlanta.   I purchased an original She-Hulk page from his graphic novel right out of his hot little hands.  I got to see him "produce" a Thing sketch which he auctioned away, and I got to say directly to himself how much I had enjoyed his work for many years.

For all of the reasons that he has revealed for not doing conventions any longer, I really dislike all the haters.  JB has been doing some of the best artwork of his career on Doom Patrol, Blood of the Demon, and from what I've seen of the All-New Atom, that book as well.

I drool everytime he posts his latest commission and pick up a Powerball ticket weekly in hopes that I can get one for myself someday.

I read through this multi-page thread and am left with the conclusion that -yes, indeed - many so-called "fans" are simply stupid.

 

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JD Morrow
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Posted: 03 July 2006 at 11:30am | IP Logged | 6  

I'm a Marvel guy (and it sucks for me that John Byrne isn't there, because I feel his love for those characters really shines through), so I don't follow his DC stuff. I did pick up his first issue of Action Comics, and back in the day, I bought all of his DC work when he revamped Superman, but I just don't find those characters nearly as interesting as the Marvel characters.

I am seriously tempted to pick up the first issue of The Atom, though. I really liked the art that was recently posted at Newsarama, and it wasn't surprising to see the bitching and whining from the Byrne haters. Things are clearly different with the art. The inker gives it a distinct look from other Byrne projects, and his panel layouts are different this time out. (and much more to my liking!)

It doesn't matter, though, as the bashers are just "programmed" to bash for the sake of bashing now. It's really a pathetic mindset. I understand that people have different tastes in art, and that's fine, but John Byrne preview art has just become a reason to spew venom instead of either skipping what doesn't interest them or at least providing more than a comment that shows them as nothing more than a mindless drone who's trying to "fit in".
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Matt Reed
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Posted: 03 July 2006 at 11:44am | IP Logged | 7  

Odd, that, isn't it, JD?  The common mindset on the net is that we're all drones here on the JBF, agreeing with everything and anything that JB has to say.  We ban people for nonconformity and slap down anyone with a dissenting opinion.  Not true at all, of course, but they can't see the herd mentality in themselves.  Just look at any of a number of threads on Newsarama or the DC boards (when such threads existed).  Detractors outnumber supporters 2:1 and they shout down anyone who even remotely disagrees with them.  That's the truth.

Pot/Kettle anyone?

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John Mietus
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Posted: 03 July 2006 at 11:55am | IP Logged | 8  

You know, I was just noticing how other boards have a tendency to ban
people for saying that the JBF only bans those who warrant it. Funny, that.
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Robert White
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Posted: 03 July 2006 at 12:01pm | IP Logged | 9  

There is some truth behind the point that JB fuels the fires. Calling people assholes for ordering questionably artistic books is a bit of a stretch in my opinion. Calling a troll an asshole? Dead on. I honestly don't think the venom unleashed on truly trollish behavior is what gives the impression of a negative aura; I think it's situations like the above that really causes the problems. As always, it's his board, his rules, and I choose to play by the rules and enjoy the largly positive atmosphere here.

Whatever the root problem is between JB and the JB detractors, it's obvious that the current handling of the situation is not working.

As a fan of JB's work, I'm tired of JB not being at Marvel where he belongs, I'm tired of this insipid "war of personalities", I'm tired of a genre that is supposed to be all about fun being inverted and turned into something frustratingly negative. This is why I detest the cultures of comic book stores and conventions.
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JD Morrow
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Posted: 03 July 2006 at 12:04pm | IP Logged | 10  

Odd, that, isn't it, JD? The common mindset on the net is that we're all drones here on the JBF, agreeing with everything and anything that JB has to say. We ban people for nonconformity and slap down anyone with a dissenting opinion. Not true at all, of course, but they can't see the herd mentality in themselves. Just look at any of a number of threads on Newsarama or the DC boards (when such threads existed). Detractors outnumber supporters 2:1 and they shout down anyone who even remotely disagrees with them. That's the truth.

Pot/Kettle anyone?


****

Yes, the mindless herd is in full swing in various comic communities, that's for sure. There's no way that I could possibly agree with everything that somebody as opinionated as Mr. Byrne says, but I can certainly be respectful when telling him so, and I doubt that I'd get banned for having a mind of my own. Sure, there may be a few here who go for brownie points with him and support everything he says, but it's no different at Bendis' board (worse, in fact). I've seen bashing going on there toward Byrne, and the hypocrisy is so thick you can choke on it. If you dare to speak against the great BENDIS!, his little mindless drones will attack you without mercy, yet they take shots at this forum all the time.

It was because of all of the nonsense like that, that lead me to finally joining over here. I'm in my 30's, not part of the "hip" and "kewl" generation of "new comic fans", so I'm definitely in better company here.   
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Casey Sager
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Posted: 03 July 2006 at 12:05pm | IP Logged | 11  

What really warrants a ban..aside from the obvious? There are times during some of the debates that I would like to respond, but I feel because of some of my more pitbullish ways on past iterations of JB boards that I might get banned for it. I really enjoy this board..so I end up biting my tongue because I don't want to offend the wrong people.

 

 

Casey

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Matt Reed
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Posted: 03 July 2006 at 12:10pm | IP Logged | 12  

BTW, welcome JD.  Glad to have you aboard!
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