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Michael Connell
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Joined: 13 January 2006
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Posted: 05 July 2007 at 11:07am | IP Logged | 1  

I wish we could get more real pros back into the comic book business. Who cares what the fanboys on bitchingaboutcomix.com say, let's get some quality stories out there again. Enough with this freaking shock & awe storytelling, where's the characterization that made comic books so great in the past?
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Michael Connell
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Posted: 05 July 2007 at 11:09am | IP Logged | 2  

You know, it's tragic but it occurs to me if I started up a website called "bitchingaboutcomix.com" I'd have 1000 fanboys join the forums overnight.
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Adam Gomes
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Joined: 25 June 2007
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Posted: 05 July 2007 at 11:52am | IP Logged | 3  

"To think that the internet allowing fans to feel that they are "not alone as readers" plays to the "clubhouse" mentality that is a large part of what's wrong with comics today."

+++

What is your opinion (then and now) of FOOM and the Mighty Marvel Marching Society?
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Todd Hembrough
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Posted: 05 July 2007 at 11:55am | IP Logged | 4  

I guess its true, that Stan attempted to create and foster a community of comic book fans thru FOOM and the MMMS.

Probably the same crap would have happened then with insta-communitcation and the InternEt.  But at the time (as a kid) I thought it was cool.

As I also thought visiting a real life comic shop on those rare occasions I went to Boston or Harvard Square.  It was like Oz (the fantastic part, not the wizard behind the curtain part.  I didn't get to see the wizard until coming online, and joining the JBF). 

Thousands of comics, and people working there and shopping there were comic fans, and not like my idiot 8 year old brother, but real fans.

Those were the days, viewing the comic universe with 12 year old eyes.

T
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John Byrne
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Posted: 05 July 2007 at 12:01pm | IP Logged | 5  

What is your opinion (then and now) of FOOM and the Mighty Marvel Marching Society?

•••

Those were extensions of the lettercols, where Stan had created a "sense of community" without creating an actual community. Part of Stan's brilliance was to give fans a sense of participation, while at the same time keeping in mind that having them actually participate would be suicide.

There had been fan clubs before. The Merry Marvel Marching Society shamelessly stole its name from the Mary Marvel Marching Society. I was, myself, a member of the Supermen of America. What was key to these, tho, was that the fans who belonged were not truly interconnected. There was a sense of being part of a greater whole, but the hobby itself remained largely solitary.

Which, the history of the industry seems to teach, was a good thing.

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John Byrne
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Posted: 05 July 2007 at 12:03pm | IP Logged | 6  

As I also thought visiting a real life comic shop on those rare occasions I went to Boston or Harvard Square.  It was like Oz (the fantastic part, not the wizard behind the curtain part.  I didn't get to see the wizard until coming online, and joining the JBF). 

•••

Unfortunately, as we have seen, too many comic shops became the physical manifestations of the clubhouse mentality. Having been born in 1967, I suspect you can barely (if at all) remember a time when there weren't comic shops. That's true of many fans today -- and too many people working in the Industry.

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Bruce Buchanan
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Posted: 05 July 2007 at 12:23pm | IP Logged | 7  

I wonder how much of this is "chicken and egg"? Do comics publishers produce continuity-laden, "adult" oriented comics because that's the kind of feedback they get from the Internet? Or do the older, long-time fans who like these kinds of stories dominate Internet discussions because that's who comics are aimed at these days?

I see the Internet as just a tool. How it is used depends entirely upon the people using it. Sure, there's lots of nonsense out there. But there's plenty of good stuff about comics on the Internet, too (including the JBF). I enjoy interacting with other comics fans here, something I never really had the chance to do as a kid.

 

 

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Todd Hembrough
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Posted: 05 July 2007 at 12:30pm | IP Logged | 8  

Unfortunately, as we have seen, too many comic shops became the physical manifestations of the clubhouse mentality. Having been born in 1967, I suspect you can barely (if at all) remember a time when there weren't comic shops. That's true of many fans today -- and too many people working in the Industry.

-----------

True.  Up until I was 15, I bought all my comics in a drug store or 7-11 kinda place.  After 15, I got them in the mail Westfield.  But even then there were no spoilers, and not crappy stuff, that you read online today.


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Mike Dunn
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Posted: 05 July 2007 at 12:41pm | IP Logged | 9  


So, we're coming out against Internet comics discussion here.  Am I reading that right?  And no, this isn't snark.

m'dunn


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Kurt Anderson
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Posted: 05 July 2007 at 12:41pm | IP Logged | 10  

Good or bad, if not for the internet, I wouldn't have returned to comics after eight years of absence.  My exposure to John Byrne's comics would've ended with Superman in the late 80's.

I doubted that I would ever buy another new comic, as the DC and Marvel Universes' continuity had gone on without me, leaving me without a clue as to what the hell was going on.

Through the net, I was able to research titles, ask questions, and learn about indie titles that I never would've given a second glance.

As a kid, I knew one guy outside of my family that read comics as I did.  As a teen I was alone.  When the shops began to open while I was in college, I could now discuss comics on a limited basis, but the shop owners were doing it as a business, not as fans.

With the net, I could ask any question, and get a multitude of answers.  Some correct, some incorrect, but it allowed me to figure out what comics I wanted to try out.

 

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Greg Kirkman
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Posted: 05 July 2007 at 12:50pm | IP Logged | 11  

While I enjoy many of the discussions we have here, I must say that I could've gone an eternity without the "clubhouse fandom" that the Internet provides. It's caused me a great deal of needless distress.

Case in point: A few years back, I was so angered by JMS' "Sins Past" storyline in Amazing Spider-Man that I felt obligated to write a short essay proving how it didn't fit into the previously established characterizations and canon. Being young and ambitious, I worked on it bit by bit for about a year or so, and it eventually snowballed into an amazingly long essay (Linked in my signature, 'natch!), which I hoped would shake some sense into the fanboys who praised the story.

As it turned out, I've received lots and lots of hateful criticism and messages about it. It's been referred to as a "crazy manifesto" and a worthless, ranting "waste of time" that was "written by a guy who thinks JMS raped his childhood". I've since realized that my writing was motivated by passion more than anything else (as well as the arrogant feeling that I could make an impact on some readers), and that emotional motivation made me an easy target for all of those basement-dwelling trolls who worship cruelty. You know, the sort of people who toss out vicious insults while hiding behind a screenname.

Internet bullying is a growing problem, but when comic fanboys are involved, the dial quickly gets turned up to 11. At pretty much any forum you go to, you'll see all sorts of bitter infighting. 

Now that some time has passed, and as I've distanced myself from things (like all current M***** books) that ignite such mad passions within me, I've come to realize that it's not worth the effort to try to make thousands of anonymous Internet fanboys "see the light". In the long run, my opinions don't matter...but neither do theirs.

 

This is the only comic-related site I post at now. I usually enjoy our discussions, but it still gets pretty darn tense around here at times (and I wish this forum wasn't so controversial to so many fanboys, because we have some great discussions around here). So, I've tried to distance myself from that negativity and I'm now spending more time reading comics that I love (as well as doing other, non-nerdy things) instead of arguing pointlessly for hours (and even days) with stubborn people I've never even met.

And I think it's beyond disgusting that people spend their time monitoring this forum, looking for "comedy" material that they can mock on other boards.



Edited by Greg Kirkman on 05 July 2007 at 12:56pm
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David Whiteley
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Posted: 05 July 2007 at 12:55pm | IP Logged | 12  

It's way too easy to complain about the impact of the internet against comics, tv, movies or music. Yes, there may be negative elements but there can also be positive elements. I had a circle of friends as a kid and we would have fun chatting about comics. Now I do the same online. If I want to dodge spoilers for stories, I manage to. In fact, look how DC pulled the wool over everyone's eyes with the recent FLASH issues or the Sinestro Corps.

JB, can you tell us more about how you see yourself fighting fire with fire? Do you think you always succeed? Are there any comments you regret or would have rephrased?
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