Active Topics | Member List | Search | Help | Register | Login
The John Byrne Forum
Byrne Robotics > The John Byrne Forum << Prev Page of 32 Next >>
Topic: Whatever happened to the X-Men? (Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post ReplyPost New Topic
Author
Message
John Byrne
Avatar
Grumpy Old Guy

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132234
Posted: 11 December 2007 at 1:45pm | IP Logged | 1  

As Stan and Jack originally portrayed him, Magneto was simply the
anithesis of the X-Men and little more than a mustache twirling villain.
Claremont's Magneto, at least up until the late 1980s, was a fully realized
character who had a logical past that motivated him towards his goals. As
written by Claremont, Magneto is a defender of his race from humanity
and humanity is brutally harsh to everything it comes across.

•••

Chris used to call me up and do dramatic readings of the dialog he had
just written for the pages I'd drawn. When we did Magneto stories, the
voice he gave the ol' Master of Magnetism made the Wicked Witch of the
West sound like Orson Welles. After his "redemption", I used to wonder if
Magneto still sounded like that in Chris' head.

++

As written by Claremont, Magneto is a defender of his race from humanity
and humanity is brutally harsh to everything it comes across.

••

Funny, I thought that was Xavier. . .
Back to Top profile | search
 
Bruce Buchanan
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 14 June 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 4797
Posted: 11 December 2007 at 1:51pm | IP Logged | 2  

Chris used to call me up and do dramatic readings of the dialog he had
just written for the pages I'd drawn.

************

Man, I wish there were audio tapes of that! Seriously, I bet it would be quite cool to hear these performances.

Back to Top profile | search | www e-mail
 
Scott McKeeve
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 11 November 2007
Posts: 835
Posted: 11 December 2007 at 2:04pm | IP Logged | 3  

"Magneto is a mass murderer who, according to his own words, wants to
enslave the entire human race. What, in the real world, would you see as
a "less contentious" example of something that parallels his attitudes and
actions? "

contentious: 1. tending to argument or strife; quarrelsome

I simply asked that you not use 9/11 as an example because the dialogue quickly turns into an emotional argument that is easily sidetracked by sentiment.

"One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter." Surely, you can see the simple logic in this statement. The American Minute Men were considered terrorists and murderers by the British. The European Colonizers were considered murders and thugs by the native peoples of those colonies. But the same soldiers were considered heros and the bringers of civilization by their home countries.

Can anyone name me a country, past or present, that would not condone murder, the killing of innocent civilians, if it was in the benefit of that country's interests? And at what number does murder become mass murder? If someone could give me some specifics on that, it would be very enlightening.

For the record, one more time, I think Magneto is a villain but I'm not a mutant!

 

Back to Top profile | search
 
Scott McKeeve
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 11 November 2007
Posts: 835
Posted: 11 December 2007 at 2:09pm | IP Logged | 4  

"As written by Claremont, Magneto is a defender of his race from humanity
and humanity is brutally harsh to everything it comes across.

••

Funny, I thought that was Xavier. . . "

Touche, and I agree. The difference between the two is how they each choose to defend their race.

 



Edited by Scott McKeeve on 11 December 2007 at 2:16pm
Back to Top profile | search
 
Scott McKeeve
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 11 November 2007
Posts: 835
Posted: 11 December 2007 at 2:13pm | IP Logged | 5  

"Chris used to call me up and do dramatic readings of the dialog he had
just written for the pages I'd drawn. When we did Magneto stories, the
voice he gave the ol' Master of Magnetism made the Wicked Witch of the
West sound like Orson Welles. After his "redemption", I used to wonder if
Magneto still sounded like that in Chris' head."

Morgan Freeman. All narration from now on is officially the voice of Morgan Freeman, who took over from James Earl Jones.

"Get busy living...."

(I've got to get back to work or I'll be made redundant)



Edited by Scott McKeeve on 11 December 2007 at 2:15pm
Back to Top profile | search
 
Matt Reed
Byrne Robotics Security
Avatar
Robotmod

Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 35722
Posted: 11 December 2007 at 2:15pm | IP Logged | 6  

 Andrew W. Farago wrote:
It probably helps her case that Scott Lobdell, Grant Morrison and Joss Whedon have obviously had a lot of fun writing Emma and making her pretty consistenly the most entertaining personalities in whichever book she's in.

Arguable at best depending on which side of the fence you reside.  Lobdell isn't one of my favorite writers.  I thought Morrison's X-MEN to be a total mess.  Whedon played with the cards he was dealt instead of discounting the White Queen's role with the X-Men.  In other words, he did the best with what he had which was, as you write, making the White Queen interesting in the X-Men dynamic.  In any event, I still contend you have to twist her character pretty far to have her teaching new mutants at Xavier's school and act as a superhero in the X-Men.

Back to Top profile | search
 
Michael Penn
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 12 April 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 12429
Posted: 11 December 2007 at 2:24pm | IP Logged | 7  

At the very least, killing Phoenix seemed infinitely preferable to Shooter's torture-her-forever scenario.

***

No doubt. Of course, if the original ending had been allowed, then none of this "event" narishkeit would have come up at all!

Back to Top profile | search
 
Andrew W. Farago
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 19 July 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 4067
Posted: 11 December 2007 at 2:37pm | IP Logged | 8  

Getting the White Queen from the Hellfire Club to the X-Men, unlike some plot twists, was a gradual process, so it didn't seem terribly jarring when it happened.

Throughout the 1980s, the White Queen was sort of a dark mirror to Professor X, training the Hellions as a version of the New Mutants that was based more on Magneto's ideals than Xavier's. Magneto eventually joined the Hellfire Club at the same time that he was headmaster of the New Mutants, so there was probably some cross-pollination of ideas happening at this time, which laid some of the groundwork for the White Queen softening her ways.

In X-Men #281, Emma had a near-death experience, and only survived through the help of the X-Men. Most of the Hellions were killed, and the whole experience was really traumatic and life-changing. I think she had another near-death experience a few years later, shortly before the launch of Generation X (unless I'm jumbling things up a bit). Either way, it was about three or four years from X-Men #281 until Generation X #1, so it's not as if she went from trying to thwart the X-Men one month to wearing the team colors the next.
Back to Top profile | search | www e-mail
 
Adam Hutchinson
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 15 December 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 4502
Posted: 11 December 2007 at 2:48pm | IP Logged | 9  

Andrew, don't forget after her near death experience she was in a coma until Uncanny X-Men 314.  Then she almost watched an all new batch of teenaged mutants get wiped out by the Phalanx. 
Back to Top profile | search
 
Matt Reed
Byrne Robotics Security
Avatar
Robotmod

Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 35722
Posted: 11 December 2007 at 2:51pm | IP Logged | 10  

The length of time has never been a problem for me, Andrew, nor have I made that the backbone of my argument against the White Queen in the X-Men here.  The backbone of my argument is that I can't see it happening with the White Queen in any scenario ever, be it after a month or after a decade.  It's just out of character to me.  Bringing up Magneto as headmaster of the New Mutants and her change potentially being tied to that doesn't sway me at all because, again, that's a character change in Magneto that never worked for me either.
Back to Top profile | search
 
Donald Miller
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 03 February 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 3601
Posted: 11 December 2007 at 3:00pm | IP Logged | 11  

Can anyone name me a country, past or present, that would not condone murder, the killing of innocent civilians, if it was in the benefit of that country's interests? And at what number does murder become mass murder? If someone could give me some specifics on that, it would be very enlightening.

I do not as an American Citizen in any way condone the murder and or killing of innocent civilians.   Regardless of  what  may be considered the best interests of anyone. 

I have come to consider the dropping of the Atomic Bomb an example that disagrees with my overall view ( there always seems to be an exception), but, that is not exactly in line with the examples you are giving.

Don
Don
Back to Top profile | search | www e-mail
 
Greg Woronchak
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 04 September 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 1631
Posted: 11 December 2007 at 3:03pm | IP Logged | 12  

I have come to realize that any change that draws a "line in the sand" is wrong.

Ah, good explanation. As a reader for many years, I hadn't ever really considered the damage of change (as opposed to the illusion of change), so thank you for the thought provoking posts.

I usually considered radical 'change' in a book as a gimmick to drive sales, and stayed away.

I don't collect much these days <g>...

 

Back to Top profile | search | www e-mail
 

<< Prev Page of 32 Next >>
  Post ReplyPost New Topic
Printable version Printable version

Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

 Active Topics | Member List | Search | Help | Register | Login