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Topic: Whatever happened to the X-Men? (Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post ReplyPost New Topic
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John Byrne
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Imaginary X-Man

Joined: 11 May 2005
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Posted: 11 December 2007 at 1:45pm | IP Logged | 1  

As Stan and Jack originally portrayed him, Magneto was simply the
anithesis of the X-Men and little more than a mustache twirling villain.
Claremont's Magneto, at least up until the late 1980s, was a fully realized
character who had a logical past that motivated him towards his goals. As
written by Claremont, Magneto is a defender of his race from humanity
and humanity is brutally harsh to everything it comes across.



Chris used to call me up and do dramatic readings of the dialog he had
just written for the pages I'd drawn. When we did Magneto stories, the
voice he gave the ol' Master of Magnetism made the Wicked Witch of the
West sound like Orson Welles. After his "redemption", I used to wonder if
Magneto still sounded like that in Chris' head.

++

As written by Claremont, Magneto is a defender of his race from humanity
and humanity is brutally harsh to everything it comes across.



Funny, I thought that was Xavier. . .
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Bruce Buchanan
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Posted: 11 December 2007 at 1:51pm | IP Logged | 2  

Chris used to call me up and do dramatic readings of the dialog he had
just written for the pages I'd drawn.

************

Man, I wish there were audio tapes of that! Seriously, I bet it would be quite cool to hear these performances.

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Scott McKeeve
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Posted: 11 December 2007 at 2:04pm | IP Logged | 3  

"Magneto is a mass murderer who, according to his own words, wants to
enslave the entire human race. What, in the real world, would you see as
a "less contentious" example of something that parallels his attitudes and
actions? "

contentious: 1. tending to argument or strife; quarrelsome

I simply asked that you not use 9/11 as an example because the dialogue quickly turns into an emotional argument that is easily sidetracked by sentiment.

"One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter." Surely, you can see the simple logic in this statement. The American Minute Men were considered terrorists and murderers by the British. The European Colonizers were considered murders and thugs by the native peoples of those colonies. But the same soldiers were considered heros and the bringers of civilization by their home countries.

Can anyone name me a country, past or present, that would not condone murder, the killing of innocent civilians, if it was in the benefit of that country's interests? And at what number does murder become mass murder? If someone could give me some specifics on that, it would be very enlightening.

For the record, one more time, I think Magneto is a villain but I'm not a mutant!

 

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Scott McKeeve
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Posted: 11 December 2007 at 2:09pm | IP Logged | 4  

"As written by Claremont, Magneto is a defender of his race from humanity
and humanity is brutally harsh to everything it comes across.



Funny, I thought that was Xavier. . . "

Touche, and I agree. The difference between the two is how they each choose to defend their race.

 



Edited by Scott McKeeve on 11 December 2007 at 2:16pm
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Scott McKeeve
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Posted: 11 December 2007 at 2:13pm | IP Logged | 5  

"Chris used to call me up and do dramatic readings of the dialog he had
just written for the pages I'd drawn. When we did Magneto stories, the
voice he gave the ol' Master of Magnetism made the Wicked Witch of the
West sound like Orson Welles. After his "redemption", I used to wonder if
Magneto still sounded like that in Chris' head."

Morgan Freeman. All narration from now on is officially the voice of Morgan Freeman, who took over from James Earl Jones.

"Get busy living...."

(I've got to get back to work or I'll be made redundant)



Edited by Scott McKeeve on 11 December 2007 at 2:15pm
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Matt Reed
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Joined: 16 April 2004
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Posted: 11 December 2007 at 2:15pm | IP Logged | 6  

 Andrew W. Farago wrote:
It probably helps her case that Scott Lobdell, Grant Morrison and Joss Whedon have obviously had a lot of fun writing Emma and making her pretty consistenly the most entertaining personalities in whichever book she's in.

Arguable at best depending on which side of the fence you reside.  Lobdell isn't one of my favorite writers.  I thought Morrison's X-MEN to be a total mess.  Whedon played with the cards he was dealt instead of discounting the White Queen's role with the X-Men.  In other words, he did the best with what he had which was, as you write, making the White Queen interesting in the X-Men dynamic.  In any event, I still contend you have to twist her character pretty far to have her teaching new mutants at Xavier's school and act as a superhero in the X-Men.

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Michael Penn
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Posted: 11 December 2007 at 2:24pm | IP Logged | 7  

At the very least, killing Phoenix seemed infinitely preferable to Shooter's torture-her-forever scenario.

***

No doubt. Of course, if the original ending had been allowed, then none of this "event" narishkeit would have come up at all!

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Andrew W. Farago
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Posted: 11 December 2007 at 2:37pm | IP Logged | 8  

Getting the White Queen from the Hellfire Club to the X-Men, unlike some plot twists, was a gradual process, so it didn't seem terribly jarring when it happened.

Throughout the 1980s, the White Queen was sort of a dark mirror to Professor X, training the Hellions as a version of the New Mutants that was based more on Magneto's ideals than Xavier's. Magneto eventually joined the Hellfire Club at the same time that he was headmaster of the New Mutants, so there was probably some cross-pollination of ideas happening at this time, which laid some of the groundwork for the White Queen softening her ways.

In X-Men #281, Emma had a near-death experience, and only survived through the help of the X-Men. Most of the Hellions were killed, and the whole experience was really traumatic and life-changing. I think she had another near-death experience a few years later, shortly before the launch of Generation X (unless I'm jumbling things up a bit). Either way, it was about three or four years from X-Men #281 until Generation X #1, so it's not as if she went from trying to thwart the X-Men one month to wearing the team colors the next.
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Adam Hutchinson
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Posted: 11 December 2007 at 2:48pm | IP Logged | 9  

Andrew, don't forget after her near death experience she was in a coma until Uncanny X-Men 314.  Then she almost watched an all new batch of teenaged mutants get wiped out by the Phalanx. 
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Matt Reed
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Posted: 11 December 2007 at 2:51pm | IP Logged | 10  

The length of time has never been a problem for me, Andrew, nor have I made that the backbone of my argument against the White Queen in the X-Men here.  The backbone of my argument is that I can't see it happening with the White Queen in any scenario ever, be it after a month or after a decade.  It's just out of character to me.  Bringing up Magneto as headmaster of the New Mutants and her change potentially being tied to that doesn't sway me at all because, again, that's a character change in Magneto that never worked for me either.
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Donald Miller
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Posted: 11 December 2007 at 3:00pm | IP Logged | 11  

Can anyone name me a country, past or present, that would not condone murder, the killing of innocent civilians, if it was in the benefit of that country's interests? And at what number does murder become mass murder? If someone could give me some specifics on that, it would be very enlightening.

I do not as an American Citizen in any way condone the murder and or killing of innocent civilians.   Regardless of  what  may be considered the best interests of anyone. 

I have come to consider the dropping of the Atomic Bomb an example that disagrees with my overall view ( there always seems to be an exception), but, that is not exactly in line with the examples you are giving.

Don
Don
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Greg Woronchak
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Posted: 11 December 2007 at 3:03pm | IP Logged | 12  

I have come to realize that any change that draws a "line in the sand" is wrong.

Ah, good explanation. As a reader for many years, I hadn't ever really considered the damage of change (as opposed to the illusion of change), so thank you for the thought provoking posts.

I usually considered radical 'change' in a book as a gimmick to drive sales, and stayed away.

I don't collect much these days <g>...

 

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