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Conrad Teves
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 28 January 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 2175
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| Posted: 13 March 2021 at 9:02am | IP Logged | 1
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Just imagining Mr. Rogers saying, "you're a monster, and that's okay." Feeding the insecurities of the young seems a perilous thing.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132278
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| Posted: 13 March 2021 at 9:13am | IP Logged | 2
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I think you're a bit behind the times, JB. These days, "Batman is gay" is a top comic shop meme. ••• You seem even FURTHER behind the times. Batman being Gay is a concept almost as old as the character. No one is racing to embrace it tho, are they?
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Michael Roberts
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 14812
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| Posted: 13 March 2021 at 9:33am | IP Logged | 3
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All fiction (broadly speaking) being fantasy, what fantasy does Confident Monster Jen serve? I hope no one is going to tell me that part of the current audience sees themselves as monstrous and in need of validation.
-----
Eh, I can understand wanting a She-Hulk who can be powerful without being the object of male gaze. I think there's a happy medium somewhere between supermodel and 'roid monster though.
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Eric Sofer
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 31 January 2014
Location: United States
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| Posted: 13 March 2021 at 10:03am | IP Logged | 4
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Conrad T: "Just imagining Mr. Rogers saying, 'you're a monster, and that's okay.' "
Conrad, I feel you've missed both the message and the messenger. I could NEVER imagine Mr. Rogers saying such a thing. I can imagine Mr. Rogers saying, "You're different and that's okay. We're all different."
I can imagine that in comics but for singular individuals - not in general. The Thing, the Hulk, Iron Man, Charles Xavier, Hank McCoy, Luke Cage, Kitty Pryde (a little late, but I hope you get my point.) They ARE all different; and it IS okay.
But supplying children nightmare fuel is kinda awkward. I hope I haven't misinterpreted you, buddy. It's just a beast that reared its head in my youth so many times... and I wouldn't want it to appear again.
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Conrad Teves
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 28 January 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 2175
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| Posted: 13 March 2021 at 10:53am | IP Logged | 5
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Eric,I fear you missed the whole setup for that. That comment was the end of the exchange with JB. (Go back a few posts) Of course Mr. Rogers would never say that. He'd tell you you were special. He'd never say there was something wrong with who you are (like you were a monster). That's the point. In my opinion, instead of feeding teen insecurities, a story should (via the plot) remind them that growing up is hard for everyone, and the difficulties in fitting in they are experiencing are normal, and whoever is looking after them loves them. I do not think it a coincidence that Stan gave Peter Parker his Aunt May and Uncle Ben. It gave Peter someone to care for that he could lose (like his parents) and a (hard) lesson in responsibility to learn what really matters in life. Teens, after all, can have prioritization issues. Subtract those two elements and you have the set up for a villain origin story. |
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Eric Sofer
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 31 January 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 4789
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| Posted: 13 March 2021 at 11:05am | IP Logged | 6
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Conrad T - Mea culpa. Thought I had the gist of it, and that your effective sarcasm was in play. But I blew it again. Yeah, you're right pal. Apologies.
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Conrad Teves
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 28 January 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 2175
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| Posted: 13 March 2021 at 11:58am | IP Logged | 7
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Eric, No worries, my friend!
All this does make me wonder if Marvel has someplace specific they are going with this, or are they just changing which hand they beat the dead horse with? |
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Adam Schulman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 July 2017
Posts: 1717
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| Posted: 13 March 2021 at 11:52pm | IP Logged | 8
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She-Hulk got bulky and ugly because she now has "confidence"?
***
I've been reading Jason Aaron's run on AVENGERS, though I've been enjoying it less and less as time goes on. Her intelligence level is the same as it's always been even though she talks in "Hulk smash!" talk because talking normal is now harder for her, for reasons I can't remember.
Anyway, Jen's thought process is that she enjoys "the freedom to be ugly" and that she's free of "the male gaze" (I'm paraphrasing). And she can still change back to a normal human when she wants.
I wish she'd go back to her old self, but the issue where her inner monologue explains why she embraces being "ugly" didn't make her sound like some total other character.
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Matt Reed
Byrne Robotics Security
Robotmod
Joined: 16 April 2004
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| Posted: 14 March 2021 at 2:57am | IP Logged | 9
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For whatever reason, that first issue of the original run of SHE-HULK grabbed me. The one by Lee & Buscema. I became an instant fan. Maybe it was because I was such a huge fan of the Hulk that it bled into She-Hulk. I dunno. But contrary to what most have said about how they came to the character, I was a fan from her first appearance. She was the first (and last) character that I tried to get every appearance in any comic she was in. That said, my love of the character was only elevated by JB's arrival and I became an even bigger fan.
What Marvel has done to her since has been criminal.
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Jim Burdo
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 April 2020
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| Posted: 14 March 2021 at 7:31am | IP Logged | 10
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In that internal monologue in AVENGERS, she compared her suffering with her cousin's, saying that he never had to worry about photographers trying to get a picture of her ass. This is the same cousin who regularly wakes up homeless and has an entire army group dedicated to hunting him down.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 14 March 2021 at 7:43am | IP Logged | 11
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Poor writing is never the character's fault.
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Rebecca Jansen
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 February 2018
Location: Canada
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| Posted: 14 March 2021 at 1:26pm | IP Logged | 12
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11-12 year old me liked the original She-Hulk to buy it for awhile, almost a year. It may've been a bit plain or formulaic to some but I made sure to get a copy each month. I was also buying Rom from the first issue but carried on with that for years. Spider-Woman was pretty plain for awhile too and I came close to dropping it but the Claremont & Leialoha version came in just in time. Dazzler I was sporadic on getting having missed the first issue but knowing the character slightly from The X-Men. There were a lot of solid but not going to be fan fave comics I bought, I think they must've been doing something right. Had John Byrne taken over She-Hulk circa say #10 of the original run I would've not dropped it, but she did perk up my interest in Fantastic Four for awhile. She's become a far more interesting character than a female spin-off of a tormented Bruce Banner, and unlike some guest appearances like The Punisher got to be, She-Hulk appearing in the Avengers or Heroes For Hire is a selling point rather than a skipping point.
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