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Rebecca Jansen
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 February 2018
Location: Canada
Posts: 4532
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| Posted: 06 April 2024 at 10:35pm | IP Logged | 1
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I supposed it's about the 'universe' of the characters, am I wrong? Getting a little overcrowded? People were saying in the early '80s they didn't see how new readers or creators could be expected to keep all the continuity straight. I'm sure it was a great success when the first few super characters met in the pages of the comics, and again when the Marvel characters met as well as inherited much of the history back to the '40s. Marvel, DC and Disney have the characters as their foundation too much I think to actually start totally anew, but as Disney has had Lilo & Stitch, Frozen, and other new creations be hits I don't know why Marvel and DC haven't outside Deadpool or Teen Titans Go... just too fan minded and backward looking?
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James Woodcock
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 September 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 7622
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| Posted: 07 April 2024 at 5:38am | IP Logged | 2
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Overcrowding is a big problem for me, as is movement away from the core
concept of the characters.
I tried X-Men on Marvel unlimited about a year or so ago.
Couldn’t recognise hardly anyone, found them living on Mars & the seemed
to be at odds with just about everyone. There was nothing I recognised & I
realised I would need to do a massive amount of homework to get back up
to speed. But as the situation, nor the characters for that matter, hooked
me, I decided I couldn’t be bothered, & didn’t go back.
It just was not accessible to a new reader.
I’ve recently tried the same thing with JMS’ Captain America, and found
that to be far more accessible & so have continued with it & am thoroughly
enjoying it
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Brian Floyd
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 07 July 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 8358
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| Posted: 08 April 2024 at 2:25am | IP Logged | 3
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Too many X-Men, and I'd hate to try and count how many heroes have been Avengers now.....
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132303
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| Posted: 08 April 2024 at 11:56am | IP Logged | 4
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It just was not accessible to a new reader.••• Is that true, tho? Long time readers tend to carry around a lot of baggage. This was the main justification for CRISIS. “It’s too confusing for new readers.” But why would it be? The whole point is that all this stuff is new to them. If the X-Men are living on Mars(?!?) then that’s the status quo to which new readers are introduced. They don’t have to do homework. Mind you, the people working in the shops will often tell them that they do. I witnessed potential new readers being told they “had to read” GENERATIONS before reading G2. Not true, but the clubhouse mentality insisted that everything be viewed as a whole.
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Mark McKay
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 2240
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| Posted: 08 April 2024 at 12:16pm | IP Logged | 5
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Infinity, Inc. #1 was the second comic book I bought, as part of collecting comics. It was pretty easy to grasp…an alternate version of earth where the “main” superheroes I knew were older, and their kids were now superheroes.
Through that I eventually learned about Earth 1 and Earth 2. It wasn’t difficult, as a 6th/7th grader.
Edit to add: And Crisis really ruined that for me. It became MORE convoluted, not less.
Edited by Mark McKay on 08 April 2024 at 12:17pm
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132303
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| Posted: 08 April 2024 at 12:23pm | IP Logged | 6
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At the time of CRISIS I sat in a corner bleating my usual solution: just stop mentioning all the “confusing” stuff. Sadly, by then the fan mentality had become so entrenched at DC they were many who could not take a step forward without looking backwards!Also, no way to make money with my method.
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Michael Penn
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 April 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 12444
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| Posted: 08 April 2024 at 1:45pm | IP Logged | 7
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QUOTE:
| They [new readers] don’t have to do homework. |
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No question this is the absolute ideal. When I was a kid-reader, even the quick little tiny editorial notes that some event mentioned in the current issue in my hands had happened in some numbered past issue was a kind of pressure.
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Steve Coates
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 November 2014
Location: Canada
Posts: 750
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| Posted: 08 April 2024 at 2:15pm | IP Logged | 8
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I think the greater detriment for new readers or young readers is the multi-issue stories. If for some reason a potential new reader is making it into a LCS, what are the chances of finding a one and done story within an on-going series?
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Vinny Valenti
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Joined: 17 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 8032
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| Posted: 08 April 2024 at 2:37pm | IP Logged | 9
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QUOTE:
| Too many X-Men, and I'd hate to try and count how many heroes have been Avengers now..... |
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It's really gotten ridiculous starting in the mid-2000s. If George Perez were still with us today, it would have been nearly impossible for him to draw the JLA/AVENGERS #3 cover if he had to add everyone that's been tossed onto both teams since 2003.
Similarly, I remember the OHOTMU entries for both Avengers (with lovely Byrne heads) and X-Men. They didn't take more than 2 pages to cover everyone back then. How many pages would they need now?
Edited by Vinny Valenti on 08 April 2024 at 2:38pm
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Matt Hawes
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Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 16430
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| Posted: 08 April 2024 at 4:39pm | IP Logged | 10
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I agree fully with JB on how to make comic titles with a history to them more accessible. I am of the age, as with most here, that I got into comics after nearly all the big players had been around at least a decade or more, and at a time when the publishers weren't restarting a title everytime the wind blew. And guess what...? I was able to get into a comic and enjoy it,, and if there was some unfamiliar stuff that took a little time to understand as far as certain references or whatever, well it was not a deterrent for me, but rather a mystery to solve as I read on and also acquired back issues. Not everything needs to be spoon fed or explained each time or all at once.
Everything is approached so delicately with people these days. Yeesh!
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Matt Hawes
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 16430
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| Posted: 08 April 2024 at 4:42pm | IP Logged | 11
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Regarding the Avengers, and how many heroes have been a part of that team: It ussd to seem like a more exclusive group of heroes, mostly the most powerful among them, but anymore it seems it's just any or all Marvel heroes assembling together for a threat in intervals. The whole Marvel Universe are pretty much members, depending on the time of the week.
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Mark Haslett
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Joined: 19 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 6106
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| Posted: 08 April 2024 at 4:50pm | IP Logged | 12
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Matt: The whole Marvel Universe are pretty much members, depending on the time of the week.
**
As a non-reader of that title, I have to admit that was pretty much the impression I had of the title. Look at the cover for issue 100 or the one where Peter Gyrich shows up to fire everybody.
I loved seeing the Avengers around and lusted after the Neal Adams issues that I could never afford to buy as back-issues, but I never understood how their membership worked or got that they were an "exclusive" group. That made it hard for me to buy their comic book.
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