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Jim Burdo
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 April 2020
Location: United States
Posts: 353
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| Posted: 17 April 2024 at 7:50am | IP Logged | 1
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The sad part isn't her being a clone, it's that she's a drunk who cripples and kills people.
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Rick Whiting
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 April 2004
Posts: 2188
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| Posted: 17 April 2024 at 12:51pm | IP Logged | 2
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Both Marvel and DC need to just retcon, ignore/make non cannon, and never mention again various stories (regardless of how popular or critically acclaimed those stories might be) that have either damaged/hurt their characters (and their brand as an IP) without any in story explanation. And to drive the point home to their older anal retentive continuity obsess fan base, they need to put out a press release and tell their fans that this is how they are going to fix/restore ALL of their characters/comics in the future. This is how you deal with all of those redundant knockoff derivative characters. They could also use this as an opportunity to reinvent those redundant knockoff characters into their own unique characters or have them take on the name of older existing characters that are either no longer being used or are rarely used. For example, instead of Miles Morales being another redundant Spider-Man with the exact same powers as Peter Parker, why not reinvent the character as the new Prowler (and have Hobie Brown be his mentor and builder and supplier of his tech/equipment). Ditch the Spider-Sense and the ability to cling to walls and have him only retain his super strength, super agility/reflexes, camouflage, and bio electric powers. This stuff isn't rocket science. All of these creators and editors need to put some effort and thought into this stuff.
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Brian Floyd
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 07 July 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 8358
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| Posted: 17 April 2024 at 3:47pm | IP Logged | 3
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The sad part isn't her being a clone, it's that she's a drunk who cripples and kills people.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
So glad I quit reading comics.
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Rebecca Jansen
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 February 2018
Location: Canada
Posts: 4532
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| Posted: 17 April 2024 at 4:41pm | IP Logged | 4
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It does seem a lot of the thinking has been along the lines of 'what can we do to _________ that hasn't been done before', even if it's been done to other characters. Usually something extreme or purportedly serious. Telling a page-turning well planned story should be where the main thinking ought to go, one you might want to revisit, but if the thought is mainly how to bump sales figures or get general media attention... that well ought to run dry at some point. If you inherit a creation that the readers actually care about that is a trust. Do what you want but do not damage that caring about, it might/should even be possible to add to it.
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Craig Earl
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 13 July 2019
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 1251
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| Posted: 18 April 2024 at 5:31pm | IP Logged | 5
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I can't say that I've read a lot of 'new' Marvel comics over the last dozen or so years, but Mile Morales is one character that has seemed to work. He's a Spider-Man, sure, but there are enough individual traits to make him interesting in his own right.
If Marvel had created other modern characters with the same amount of care, the situation that prompted this thread probably wouldn't exist.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132303
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| Posted: 18 April 2024 at 6:52pm | IP Logged | 6
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The sad part isn't her being a clone, it's that she's a drunk who cripples and kills people.••• First I’ve heard of this. Another case of someone trying to piss me off? I wish I could call it paranoia, but there have been just too many times. I also wish they’d get it into their heads that I DON’T CARE!
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Brian Floyd
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 07 July 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 8358
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| Posted: 19 April 2024 at 3:42pm | IP Logged | 7
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I just have to ask, though I don't know why:
Using her powers, or did she go drunk driving?
I think the problem is Marvel needs a E-I-C or publisher who doesn't let the inmates run the asylum. Too many storylines and changes to characters that do not make sense. If I had been reading still, I'd have dropped out when they turned Beast (and I don't mean Dark Beast) evil, if not sooner. The Hydra Cap thing also angered me as a fan. One More Day/Brand New Day is what made me to stop reading Spider-Man comics.
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Rebecca Jansen
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 February 2018
Location: Canada
Posts: 4532
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| Posted: 19 April 2024 at 3:53pm | IP Logged | 8
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They could've all become blood drinking vampires with mohawks, so maybe clones are the lesser of two evils (future generations will look back on this post and write me off as hopelessly anti-clone now).
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Robert Bradley
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 September 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 4830
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| Posted: 19 April 2024 at 3:54pm | IP Logged | 9
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It used to be understood that you can't make changes that break the characters. You didn't include things like Hank Pym hitting Jan.
But I guess they decided that if you can turn Magneto into a hero, pretty much anything will get overlooked eventually.
It was a breakthrough to have superheroes with chinks in their armor. But they had a moral compass. Put those same characters in the hands of a writer who doesn't have a full understanding of that and you have have heroes making questionable decisions.
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Rebecca Jansen
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 February 2018
Location: Canada
Posts: 4532
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| Posted: 19 April 2024 at 4:06pm | IP Logged | 10
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You used to be able to count on Mr. Fantastic, Thor, Captain America and Professor X (like the Jon Pertwee Doctor Who) for a certain steadfast idealism. Cyclops was on his way to that class at one time I'd say. Never say die (even if the talking spiders of Metebelis won over Pertwee). Marvel had that great mix of characters for quite awhile including supporting casts as well as solid team players and perennial guests, but somewhere they may've lost the plot.
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Peter Martin
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 March 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 15805
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| Posted: 19 April 2024 at 5:59pm | IP Logged | 11
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A perfect being doing all the right things perfectly = less drama (akin to classic DC)An imperfect being trying to do all the right things, but doing it imperfectly and putting themselves through the wringer as a consequence = high drama (akin to classic Marvel) An imperfect being who doesn't care about caring doing the right things = less drama (modern 'gritty' anti-hero take). |
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 19 April 2024 at 6:13pm | IP Logged | 12
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There is a scene in a very early FF that sums up the antihero motif, for me. The team have lost all their money, and Reed is desperate to recoup the loss. He notes that with their powers they could easily rob banks “but that would be unthinkable.”“I dunno,” grumbles Ben. “I might think about it.” Yes, think. But not follow thru on such thoughts!
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