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Joe Hollon
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 08 May 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 13675
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| Posted: 03 June 2006 at 3:23am | IP Logged | 1
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Dave Pruitt wrote:
Oh MY GOD!! X-Men #112!? Damn, JB!
Damn, DAMN, DAMN!!!
DAMN!!!
*******************
I tried to warn 'em Dave...
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132286
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| Posted: 03 June 2006 at 4:20am | IP Logged | 2
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How many of you are aware, I wonder, of the "historical significance" of the cover to 112?Before that cover, Dave Cockrum had drawn Wolverine without a shirt a couple of times, but had always kept the hair on his arms inside the "glove line" when doing so. When I took on the art chores on UNCANNY I naturally followed Dave's lead. I sort of assumed the costume had skin colored sleeves, like the leggings Burt Ward wore as Robin. In any case, before I got to the book, when he was in costume none of Wolverine's body hair was visible. When I first saw George's "off-model" rendering, I had a brief flash of annoyance. Wasn't he supposed to be drawing the character as he looked in the book? But the longer I looked at that cover, the more I liked it. By then, working to the old schedules, I was about three issues ahead of what was on the stands, so I did not start drawing Woleverine's arm hair showing above the gloves until 115. In fact, in 114, there's a scene in the Savage Land with Wolverine with his shirt off, and his arms and shoulders are hairy, demonstrating my assumption that the costume had sleeves. Once the hair started showing, tho, it became almost a competition between Terry and me, to see who could make him the hairiest, the fastest!
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Glenn Brown
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 3095
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| Posted: 03 June 2006 at 4:40am | IP Logged | 3
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OK, that #112 re-creation was pretty hot.
Not saying the #108 cover wasn't...
I think it's a shame that you only drew Magneto battling the X-Men once (#112-113). Were you satisfied with that, or did you have another Magneto battle inside you that never had a chance to get on paper?
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132286
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| Posted: 03 June 2006 at 4:41am | IP Logged | 4
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Magneto appeared twice in HIDDEN YEARS.
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Glenn Brown
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 3095
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| Posted: 03 June 2006 at 4:44am | IP Logged | 5
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Right...I should have been more specific re the new team during your run on Uncanny X-Men.
Recall the scene where he's recuperating aboard Asteroid M in #125? As a kid, I couldn't wait for that next battle..!
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Mig Da Silva
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: Portugal
Posts: 900
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| Posted: 03 June 2006 at 4:46am | IP Logged | 6
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Man, that's some amazing stuff.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132286
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| Posted: 03 June 2006 at 4:52am | IP Logged | 7
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I just love Magneto, he isnt so much evil as he is a genuine asshole. **** Amazing how far off-model he has gone, isn't it? When Stan, Jack and Steve were creating the Marvel Universe, right out of the box they set up three iconic villains. Doctor Doom was the "noble" one (at least in his own head -- and flashes of this are to be found even as early as FF 6), Otto Octavius was the "tragic" one (a victim of his own hubris), and Magneto was ---- yup, Magneto was the total asshole. The guy who founded the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants. No qualms there! No "freedom fighter". I was talking about this with a friend (Hi, Paul!) just the other day, noting that Magneto in the comics has become so far removed from the character he was created to be, that the lines between his role and that of Xavier have been not merely blurred, but in some instances erased. Now it is Magneto who is fighting the good fight, while Xavier is seen to be manipulative and often without conscience. In the much same way Kryptonians became weaker as Superman became more powerful, as Magneto has been nudged more and more into the "good guy" camp, Xavier has been sliding the other way. These are not the guys who appeared in X-MEN 1! Maybe I should have let Chris have Doctor Doom to play with from time to time. At least those bad stories could have been written off as Doombots. Mea culpa, mea culpa
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132286
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| Posted: 03 June 2006 at 5:05am | IP Logged | 8
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Allow me to take a moment to repeat my oft-told story of Magneto's appearances in XHY. There are bound to be some who have not read this before.When I came to do HIDDEN YEARS, the greatest frustration I knew I would face was that the X-Men's Number One Foe was not available to me. We'd seen Magneto fall under a pile of rubble and machinery, in his last appearance in the original X-MEN series, and then we'd seen him appear "next" in FANTASTIC FOUR, teamed up with the Sub-Mariner. As I remembered those issues, they seemed to be showing events that occured without much space between them. Namor had found Magneto right after his defeat by the X-Men. But there was something tickling in the back of my brain, and when I pulled out the pertinent issues to check, I discovered what it was. The X-Men had battled Magneto deep in the heart of the Savage Land and, as noted, when last seen he was buried under a pile of rubble. But Namor found him out in the open, lying on a beach on an island off the coast of the Savage Land, apparently miles from the location of his confrontation with Cyclops & Co. Of course, the "real" reason for this was that Jack Kirby, drawing the FF issue, had not checked the X-MEN issue. Stan probably gave him one of his famous micro-plots -- "Have Sub-Mariner find him!" -- and that's what Jack did. He knew the discovery had to be in the Savage Land but -- as was common back then -- he did not sweat the details. This disconnect between those key scene was, of course, exactly what I was looking for. The scene Jack gave us clearly happened at some distance -- in time and space -- from the scene in X-MEN. So, with a little careful planning, I was able to make use of Magneto after all. And, as it turned out, I was able to get a Magneto-vs-Sauron story out of it, as Chris Claremont and I had already done the work that allowed Karl Lykos to have survived his plunge into the Savage Land. Once the FF issues were addressed, there were a couple of other "untold tales" of Magneto the established storylines allowed. They would have turned up later, if XHY had not been canceled.
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Michael Penn
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 April 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 12440
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| Posted: 03 June 2006 at 5:07am | IP Logged | 9
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I posted the actual lines from X-MEN #4 somewhere else, I think on the X-MEN 3 movie thread, but essentially Lee/Kirby set up the character of Magneto as a nearly mad egomaniac who believed mutants should enslave non-mutants, and that he -- Magneto -- should rule them all... natch.
Holocaust survivor? Huh?!
And if Magneto began as a Jewish boy who suffered through Nazi atrocities and the Death Camps... would he not make a special exception for Jews, at least, among all non-mutants? Would he not make a special exception for Kitty Pryde among the X-Men? What is all this stupidity introduced into his character?! FEH!
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James Henry
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 02 August 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 576
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| Posted: 03 June 2006 at 10:57am | IP Logged | 10
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Wow! I always thought it was a bit odd that JB wasn't the cover artist on all of the issues during his X-Men run, so it's amazing now to see these great X-Men covers done by the master himself.
Seeing these covers reminds me of something that's been bugging me for a while. I have a distinct memory of seeing a JB cover of Classic X-Men # 16 (reprinting X-Men #109) when I was a kid, but the only cover I can find in comic stores or online is the Art Adams cover.
I'm wondering if there was a different cover for the newsstands versus the direct market or if I'm simply remembering it incorrectly. Any help in answering this question would be greatly appreciated.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 03 June 2006 at 12:43pm | IP Logged | 11
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I don't remember doing any CLASSIC X-MEN covers.
I did a couple for the original team reprint series.
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Greg Kirkman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 May 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 15775
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| Posted: 03 June 2006 at 1:05pm | IP Logged | 12
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I just love Magneto, he isnt so much evil as he is a genuine asshole.
****
Amazing how far off-model he has gone, isn't it?
When Stan, Jack and Steve were creating the Marvel Universe, right out of the box they set up three iconic villains. Doctor Doom was the "noble" one (at least in his own head -- and flashes of this are to be found even as early as FF 6), Otto Octavius was the "tragic" one (a victim of his own hubris), and Magneto was ---- yup, Magneto was the total asshole. The guy who founded the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants. No qualms there! No "freedom fighter".
I was talking about this with a friend (Hi, Paul!) just the other day, noting that Magneto in the comics has become so far removed from the character he was created to be, that the lines between his role and that of Xavier have been not merely blurred, but in some instances erased. Now it is Magneto who is fighting the good fight, while Xavier is seen to be manipulative and often without conscience. In the much same way Kryptonians became weaker as Superman became more powerful, as Magneto has been nudged more and more into the "good guy" camp, Xavier has been sliding the other way. These are not the guys who appeared in X-MEN 1!
Maybe I should have let Chris have Doctor Doom to play with from time to time. At least those bad stories could have been written off as Doombots. Mea culpa, mea culpa
++++++++++++++++++++
For what it's worth, in Comics Creators on X-Men, Stan Lee says that he would probably have revealed that Xavier and Magneto were brothers if he'd stayed on longer. Hmm.
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