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Pascal LISE
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 29 July 2006
Location: France
Posts: 1111
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| Posted: 16 September 2007 at 6:52am | IP Logged | 1
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I enjoyed 1963.
It felt like reading comics I used to read as a kid but updated
for the adult I had become.
Not Silver Age, and how could it be otherwise, 25 years later,
but quite an entertaining experience.
As for Stan Lee, I never forget that some of Kirby's best work
came when he was associated with the man.
Still, I wish, in many interviews he gave, Lee didn't pretend
he didn't understand the reason for Kirby's bitter feelings
at that time.
I still remember how disappointed I felt when Kirby quit
Fantastic Four. Although I quickly fell in love with Buscema's
pencils
after all, show must go on !
Edited by Pascal LISE on 16 September 2007 at 6:54am
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 16 September 2007 at 7:00am | IP Logged | 2
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It felt like reading comics I used to read as a kid but updated for the adult I had become. The "adult" having lost all sense of wonder, to the point of viewing the whole genre with a sense of ennui bordering on contempt? Curious, now. How many other things from your childhood do you want to see "updated for the adult"? Do you seek out gourmet babyfood? Tricycles built to adult scale? Kid's cartoons "reimagined" with an adult slant? Adult sizes of the fashions you wore? In point of fact, any adult out in the real world who sought out such things would be viewed as substantially off the beam. What is it about the superhero genre that causes so many "adults" to demand that it be retailored to their chainging needs?
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 16 September 2007 at 7:03am | IP Logged | 3
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I wish, in many interviews he gave, Lee didn't pretend he didn't understand the reason for Kirby's bitter feelings at that time. Stan is "pretending" nothing. He and Kirby worked under the same conditions. Neither owned what they produced for Marvel, neither had any expectations of such when they produced that work. Stan's expression of lack of understanding is genuine -- how could Kirby complain so bitterly about cirumstances which he fully understood going in, and, indeed, compelled others to operate under when he was the "boss"?
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Pascal LISE
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 29 July 2006
Location: France
Posts: 1111
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| Posted: 16 September 2007 at 7:16am | IP Logged | 4
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The "adult" having lost all sense of wonder, to the point of viewing the
whole genre with a sense of ennui bordering on contempt?
Curious, now. How many other things from your childhood do you want
to see "updated for the adult"? Do you seek out gourmet babyfood?
Tricycles built to adult scale? Kid's cartoons "reimagined" with an adult
slant? Adult sizes of the fashions you wore?
***
I certainly didn't lost all sense of wonder. If this was the case, I wouldn't
still be reading modern Superheroes comics nowaday (although very few
now).
As I wrote, I enjoyed 1963 as an entertaining experience and certainly not
as something I'm looking for because I need to fill a severe case of
nostalgia.
I stopped eating baby food long time ago but with time I grew a different
undertanding and appreciation for some ot the work I used to like as a
kid, yours included Mr. Byrne
Edited by Pascal LISE on 16 September 2007 at 7:18am
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Pascal LISE
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 29 July 2006
Location: France
Posts: 1111
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| Posted: 16 September 2007 at 7:40am | IP Logged | 5
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how could Kirby complain so bitterly about cirumstances which he fully
understood going in, and, indeed, compelled others to operate under when
he was the "boss"?
***
Mebbe because Kirby believed that he deserved better from a compagny for
which he did so much valuable creations ?
A body of work largely unmatched amongst his peers ?
Edited by Pascal LISE on 16 September 2007 at 7:41am
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Brian Miller
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 28 July 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 30899
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| Posted: 16 September 2007 at 7:50am | IP Logged | 6
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Mebbe because Kirby believed that he deserved better from a compagny for
which he did so much valuable creations ?
*****************
But, why would he believe that all of a sudden? At that point, he had already created so much before the Marvel stuff. Why was this a point of contention all of a sudden? He had worked in this industry for 40 years under the same rules. Why would he feel he was deserving of something he had previously not? As JB mentioned, he was even the BOSS of other artists using these same rules.
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Pascal LISE
Byrne Robotics Member
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Location: France
Posts: 1111
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| Posted: 16 September 2007 at 8:05am | IP Logged | 7
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The comic industry changed under the pression of those willing to change it.
Kirby probably did what he could for what he believed in.
Considering the stage of his career and his importance in Marvel success
wouldn't it be tempting to try and change for better ?
Edited by Pascal LISE on 16 September 2007 at 8:06am
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 16 September 2007 at 8:14am | IP Logged | 8
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The comic industry changed under the pression of those willing to change it. Kirby probably did what he could for what he believed in. When Kirby had his own company, he had a chance to strike a huge and unmistakable blow for "creator's rights". Instead, he ran it just as everybody else did -- no credits, no royalties, no return of artwork. Laud Kirby with every bit of praise he duly deserves -- but not this. In this battle, his stance became the all too common "You mean the rules apply to ME?"
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Brian Miller
Byrne Robotics Member
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| Posted: 16 September 2007 at 8:16am | IP Logged | 9
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If he was trying to change things for all artists, including himself, I would understand. From what you are presenting, Pascal, hes was just trying to change something because he felt he contributed more than anyone else. I've never gotten that vibe from anything I've read concerning this issue and I have a hard time believing it. Was Kirby that egotistical?
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John Young
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 August 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 3145
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| Posted: 16 September 2007 at 8:26am | IP Logged | 10
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The reading of comics is not nostalgia for me, its the joy of a story with action, adventure, drama, and fun.
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Francesco Vanagolli
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 03 June 2005
Location: Italy
Posts: 3130
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| Posted: 16 September 2007 at 8:33am | IP Logged | 11
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1963 is one of those things I'd like to read.
A friend of mine told me sometimes that "Alan Moore doesn't write stories WITH superheroes, but ABOUT superheroes. He wants to analyze, not to tell a story.". Even if I don't dislike Moore's works (in fact, I loved WATCHMEN and his last Superman story), I agree with him.
Talking about "retro" comics, I suggest SPIDER-GIRL and, why not, the GENERATIONS trilogy.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
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| Posted: 16 September 2007 at 8:34am | IP Logged | 12
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Was Kirby that egotistical?
Yes. We all are.
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