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Scott Silverstein
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 30 October 2007
Posts: 198
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| Posted: 18 February 2009 at 10:29am | IP Logged | 1
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this is a great thread....along the same lines of I wonder how nazis feel...
Anyone ever read
The Portage of San Cristobel of A. H. by GEORGE STEINER (1981)
Fantastic work .... Steiner places Hitler alive in the south american jungle where nazi hunters track him down and put in on trail....in the trail HILTER is allowed to defend himself and claim that ISRAEL owes it existence due to the Holocaust....
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132320
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| Posted: 18 February 2009 at 12:11pm | IP Logged | 2
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I've said elsewhere that the biggest favor Hitler did the world was killing
himself. Sure, we were denied "closure", but in this case I think that is a
good idea.
During the War, Hitler was a cartoon character. Every chance was taken to
mock him, portray him as a clown and a loser. The kind of guy who got
kicked in the pants by Bugs Bunny.
Film footage has come to light since the end of the War showing what an
utterly destroyed human being Hitler was by the time he pulled the trigger.
"Doddery" would be a good word. And I do not think bringing him to trial
would have done the world any favors. Dragging that frail, bewildered old
man into a courtroom, a la Nuremberg, might well have elicited the
very last thing we would have wanted: sympathy.
When he killed himself, he began the demonization process. Hitler is viewed
today as an almost supernatural evil, not a clown. And that, I think, is a
good thing.
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Jeremiah Avery
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 27 December 2008
Location: United States
Posts: 2431
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| Posted: 18 February 2009 at 2:02pm | IP Logged | 3
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First off, great commission, JB!
Secondly, I've been to the Holocaust Museum in D.C. and "sobering" is an understatement. There's a quote on one of the walls from General Eisenhower how he is there to bear witness and attests that what he has seen is real and to give his word that this all actually happened. Seeing all that happened fills me with anger and sorrow for what happened and that people still deny it happened. Then where did they all go, dumb@$$?
JB, did you have any input into the "Days of Future Past" story and was the allegory deemed a bit too much for the powers that be at the time?
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Peter Martin
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 March 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 15812
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| Posted: 18 February 2009 at 2:14pm | IP Logged | 4
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Anyone ever read 'Nazi Hunter' a biography of Simon Wiesenthal? It's a fascinating book, with simply dreadful details of the death camps -- there's a telling story in there of how, following Wiesenthal's liberation from a concentration camp by GI's, he is doing a lot of wandering in the hills trying to get his strength back and runs into a woman on a farm. He tells her his story -- and she doesn't believe him. He then basically devotes his life to gathering (a) testimonies from Holocaust survivors and (b) hunting down former Nazis to make them stand trial for their war crimes.
Edited by Peter Martin on 18 February 2009 at 2:15pm
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Jeremiah Avery
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 27 December 2008
Location: United States
Posts: 2431
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| Posted: 18 February 2009 at 2:19pm | IP Logged | 5
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What's even worse than not being believed, is that some survivors who returned home were later killed.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 18 February 2009 at 2:20pm | IP Logged | 6
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JB, did you have any input into the "Days of Future Past" story and was the
allegory deemed a bit too much for the powers that be at the time?
••
Except for the inclusion of Senator Kelly, who was Chris' character, "Days of
Future Past" is entirely mine. Some may recall my having mentioned before
that upon arriving on UNCANNY I told Chris I wanted to do a Sentinel story,
and his response was "Sentinels are wimpy." "No," said I, "you write
them wimpy." So I plotted a story in which the Sentinels basically kick
everybody's behind and take over the world.
Since the story saw print, I wonder how you could conclude it was "too
much" for the Powers That Were?
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Jeremiah Avery
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 27 December 2008
Location: United States
Posts: 2431
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| Posted: 18 February 2009 at 2:33pm | IP Logged | 7
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Sorry, I need to be better at articulating. Was there concern about negative reactions from readers or was any of the story altered (like the "Dark Phoenix Saga" ending)? The pyrrhic victory left a lot open. Even when the X-Men win, they don't.
It's still one of my top stories and the fact that it was told in two issues shows you don't need 6 issues of exposition before actually making a point. I see pages from that story for sale sometimes, but I could put a massive down payment on a house for what they go for!
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 18 February 2009 at 2:36pm | IP Logged | 8
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Sorry, I need to be better at articulating. Was there concern about negative
reactions from readers or was any of the story altered (like the "Dark
Phoenix Saga" ending)? The pyrrhic victory left a lot open. Even when the
X-Men win, they don't.
••
As plotted, the victory was in no way pyrrhic. The X-Men had a clean win.
In fact, giving them one was one of the main reasons I did the story.
Even with Chris' "incestuous lesbian kiss", as it came to be called around the
Office at the time, there would have been no reason to revisit that story --
except that Chris can't seem to stop revisiting stories.
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Jeremiah Avery
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 27 December 2008
Location: United States
Posts: 2431
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| Posted: 18 February 2009 at 2:41pm | IP Logged | 9
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Ah, I guess I muddled later stories touching upon "Days of Future Past" as being a result of that story itself. Going back to the well a few times can dilute the original material.
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Gary Olson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 11 September 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 382
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| Posted: 18 February 2009 at 8:06pm | IP Logged | 10
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There's a Playboy book, a collection of interviews including a 1966(I think) one with George Lincoln Rockwell. The magazine sent Alex Haley, the African/American author of Roots, to interview him. Even though Rockwell is long dead, the piece is scary and funny at the same time. Was it wrong to give the guy a forum in a national magazine? Or is it best to have festering stuff like this out in the open?
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Cory Vandernet
Byrne Robotics Member
Henchman
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 848
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| Posted: 18 February 2009 at 8:38pm | IP Logged | 11
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Funny you should mention the George Lincoln Rockwell interview by Alex Haley. Way back in 1979 that interview was recreated by James Earl Jones as Haley and Marlon Brando as Rockwell in the Mini-Series Roots: The Next Generation. I haven't seen it since but I remember being very impressed by both performances.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 19 February 2009 at 6:19am | IP Logged | 12
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The PLAYBOY interview can be found HERE.
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