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Keith Thomas Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 06 April 2009 Location: United States Posts: 3082
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Posted: 18 June 2010 at 4:45am | IP Logged | 1
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The "fans".
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Stephen Robinson Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 5835
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Posted: 18 June 2010 at 5:19am | IP Logged | 2
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To reiterate: The greatest amount of damage to the industry was done by the Direct Sales Market, and how it shifted from being a place to pick up back issues, to being virtually the ONLY place to get comics. ******************* SER: Was there ever a chance of the Direct Market doing the damage it did but the *content* of comics remaining the same? It pains me to realize that comics have not been what I remember them best as for almost 20 years. If I could walk into a comics shop today and see JB FFs and SUPERMANs, Miller DAREDEVILs, Haney/Aparo BRAVE AND THE BOLDs, Stern SPIDER-MANs, I'd be a most contented man, but now I see a majority of fanzines.
Was that unavoidable?
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Chuck Wells Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 27 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 1244
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Posted: 18 June 2010 at 5:26am | IP Logged | 3
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Petter and then JB (reiterating his long-held view) are right on the money - if there is any valid answer to what went wrong within the comics industry since the dawn of the direct market.Then Keith Thomas handily sums up all of the "lesser arguments" made above JB's post. Fans succumbing to "all of the above", in my estimation, are mostly to "blame" for everything else. I weaned myself off of the direct shops a few years ago and really only stop in occasionally for select items. I primarily focus on back issues (silver & bronze age). With eBay, mail order services, conventions and online scans, there are sufficient options available to enjoy newer comics.
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Bill Collins Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 May 2005 Location: England Posts: 11249
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Posted: 18 June 2010 at 6:06am | IP Logged | 4
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Apart from the DSM i think that giving titles to novelists who either can`t or won`t change to suit the medium was a big mistake.They should be creating short sharp shocks,not long winded waffle.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 132297
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Posted: 18 June 2010 at 6:06am | IP Logged | 5
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Was there ever a chance of the Direct Market doing the damage it did but the *content* of comics remaining the same?•• Seems unlikely. By shifting almost entirely into the DSM, the Companies made a decision to cut off that portion of the audience that did not have free and easy access to the shops. In other words, since the Shops were not like the newsstands, bookstores, corner groceries, drugstores, etc, that traditionally carried comics and were to be found in many and varied locations thru-out towns and cities, it became a fairly major undertaking to go to a Shop and buy comics (not to mention forcing potential new readers into having to make the conscious decision to do so, thereby almost completely eliminating the impulse buy that used to be how most people got started reading comics), so the regular clientelle became those who could make the trip easily and under their own steam. Which, in most cases, was not the original target audience, kids.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 132297
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Posted: 18 June 2010 at 6:08am | IP Logged | 6
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Apart from the DSM i think that giving titles to novelists who either can`t or won`t change to suit the medium was a big mistake.They should be creating short sharp shocks,not long winded waffle.•• Thats a bit like saying that amputating a gangrenous leg creates a problem by making it hard to walk. The CURRENT shape and state of the industry is a symptom, not the disease itself.
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Michael Hogan Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 2052
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Posted: 18 June 2010 at 6:32am | IP Logged | 7
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The Direct Market, definitely. When it's not even your intent to appeal to hoardes of kids (because "they don't read comics"), then you can just publish vanity pieces...Ugh.
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Tony Midyett Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 25 January 2010 Location: United States Posts: 2834
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Posted: 18 June 2010 at 6:32am | IP Logged | 8
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So, is there ANY hope? Is there a publisher out there who is making any real effort to get comics back onto the 'stands and the convenience stores and such?
When I was a youngster growing up in the rural South in the '70's, the nearest comics shop was 50 miles away---I got most of my comics from Wal-Mart, and the ones that I couldn't find there, I bought at a nearby convenience store. With those outlets gone, and comics shops disappearing at an alarming rate, I guess most kids are just SOL, until their parents take them to the local Waldenbooks and let them browse the spinner rack, eh?
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 132297
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Posted: 18 June 2010 at 6:37am | IP Logged | 9
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So, is there ANY hope?•• In the broad view, probably not. The whole Industry is waiting for the impact of Marvel being bought by Disney to really show itself. Many -- including myself -- are of the opinion that the House of Mouse is likely to simply shut down the House of M. It's the properties/characters Disney wants, not a comic publishing company. If that happens -- Disney shutting down the publishing arm of Marvel -- the whole folded paper aspect of the industry should be effectively dead very soon after. DC and the smaller companies cannot support the DSM all by themselves.
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Joe Zhang Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 12857
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Posted: 18 June 2010 at 6:40am | IP Logged | 10
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Probably certain pros from the Baby Boomer generation and the counter-culture movement of the late 60's and early 70's did the most damage. Their intimate familiarity with superheroes coupled with their huge contempt for the simplistic ideals of the genre defines today's comic books.
Edited by Joe Zhang on 18 June 2010 at 6:40am
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Philippe Negrin Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 August 2007 Location: France Posts: 2644
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Posted: 18 June 2010 at 7:35am | IP Logged | 11
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The big money's in the movies and video games now.
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Anthony Frail Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 09 October 2007 Posts: 960
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Posted: 18 June 2010 at 7:36am | IP Logged | 12
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First, I'm curious-- what is meant by nesstands? I've always assumed it meant any place other than a comic store that sells comics and not specifically newsstands found on the streets of major cities. Is there any chance the newsstands didn't want comics? I remember comics being sold in 7-11 and Walmart as recently as the late 90s, after the "great implosion". An argument I've heard is that comics don't "pull their weight" for newsstand vendors as far as how much space they take up vs. how much money each unit is sold for.
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