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Topic: Q for JB: printing and art (Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post ReplyPost New Topic
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Carmen Bernardo
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Posted: 26 May 2011 at 7:50am | IP Logged | 1  

     Maybe it worked out better when peole were just hammered to stay on a deadline.  If all jobs were run the way modern comicbook publishers seem to be running, I doubt that anything will be done on time, and we'd still be waiting for the latest doohickey from Apple, General Motors, and General Electric.  Comics these days seem to be where all the slacker kids go to work.
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Jeremiah Avery
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Posted: 26 May 2011 at 7:53am | IP Logged | 2  

Is there a "whenever we feel like it" clause in current contracts?
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Peter Hicks
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Posted: 26 May 2011 at 8:02am | IP Logged | 3  

" Is there a "whenever we feel like it" clause in current contracts? "

Yes, and David Finch must have that clause in the contract for his new Batman book.  DC already has a fill in artist booked for ISSUE #3!!!!  Great work David, putting out those entire two issues back to back!

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John Byrne
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Posted: 26 May 2011 at 8:08am | IP Logged | 4  

Comics these days seem to be where all the slacker kids go to work.

••

Comics stopped being professional publications a long time ago. I can almost name the moment, in fact.

Not long after I joined The Biz I sat in on an editorial meeting up at Marvel at which John Verpoorten, then the Production Manager, pointed out to the assembled editors (many of whom were writer/editors, a job description Roger Stern once called "a license to steal") that books were cutting so close to missing the shipping schedules that they might actually need to skip a whole month, just to get on target again. I sat there in appalled silence as these so-called professionals then sat around discussing this as a viable option, until Verpoorten growled that he was joking, and what was REALLY going to happen was that books were going to get back on schedule.

For a while it happened -- but not for long.

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John Byrne
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Posted: 26 May 2011 at 8:08am | IP Logged | 5  

Is there a "whenever we feel like it" clause in current contracts?

••

Not as such -- but a while back DC's one year contract was for TEN issues!

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Chris Geary
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Posted: 26 May 2011 at 8:44am | IP Logged | 6  

What I can't understand in regard to the attitude towards contracts, surely it
should be written in that those involved have to produce a certain amount of
work over a certain time scale. e.g. 22 pages over 30 days. This could be set
differently for each contract, depending on those involved.

Buy signing a contract, they shouldn't operate under the normal conditions
of 'work for hire'. If such stipulations were enforced, and it was a case of 'If
you don't meet the targets set, they you're in breach of contract and you
won't get paid.' I'm sure those creators that are constantly slacking will soon
change their work ethic.

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John Byrne
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Posted: 26 May 2011 at 8:50am | IP Logged | 7  

(By) signing a contract, they shouldn't operate under the normal conditions of 'work for hire'.

••

Not sure I follow you here. Work-for-Hire requires those doing it to turn it in on a timely schedule, just like anything else.

What used to boggle my mind, when I was last under contract at Marvel, was that the structure was set up so that the earlier I turned in the work, the more I was paid. Thus, instead of penalizing those who were late, Marvel was rewarding those who were just DOING WHAT THEY WERE SUPPOSED TO DO!

The system was so messed up that I did the math and realized I could turn in my work anything up to 10 weeks late and still get my regular page rate!!

(Sometimes I have wondered if one of the REAL reasons for canceling HIDDEN YEARS was so that they would no longer have to pay me the double page-rate I was earning by turning in my work so far ahead of schedule.)

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Chris Geary
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Posted: 26 May 2011 at 9:15am | IP Logged | 8  

My understanding of 'Work for hire' in regard to comics is more of an
informal arrangement between creator and Editor.

'Are you able to do an issue of Spider-Man?'
'Yes I am.'
'Here's the script, I want the artwork no later than …'   

Then when a page is turned in, the artist gets get paid. If they don't hand
anything in for a week, you don't get paid for that week. If the Editor is
fine with that, and the creator in question can live like that, then that's
okay.

But if it means that the book is going to be late, then it should be taken
away from the artist, and given to someone else. Now the artist won't get
paid at all, no matter when they feel like doing it. And the chances are,
they won't get any work again with that Editor.

At least that's how I see it should work. But to me it seems that in some
cases the Editors are perfectly happy to receive the work as and when it's
ready.

If someone signs a contract so that they will be exclusive with a certain
company, it should be that they have to create a certain amount of work
within a given time. And by that same token, the publisher is to have
work ready for the artist when needed.
If the artist doesn't meet those terms, then they can get fired and possibly
have to compensate the publisher for breach of contract. Again, the artist
can have their own version of this if work isn't ready. No doubt they
would still be getting paid for doing nothing.

At the moment most contracts mean that you will not work for someone
else, and no doubt the artists get paid more for this scenario as they are
effectively taking themselves off the market.

As you mentioned above, although it's nice to get rewarded for doing
what you're supposed to do, but isn't that what wages are for? There
should be penalties, 10% less payment per day/week, or even if it's
something as subtle as not giving work to that creator in the future.

Back in the day when page rates were low, there were no such thing as
royalties, or artwork returned for the possibility for sale to collectors,
artist didn't have a problem turning in good work in a timely fashion.
Some of the greatest comic work was produced under those
circumstances.
Maybe it's time for those days to come back.

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Jesus Garcia
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Posted: 26 May 2011 at 7:45pm | IP Logged | 9  

John Byrne

(Sometimes I have wondered if one of the REAL reasons for canceling HIDDEN YEARS was so that they would no longer have to pay me the double page-rate I was earning by turning in my work so far ahead of schedule.)

IIRC you pointed out that the book might have been cancelled earlier than it actually was, except that the powers-that-be at Marvel discovered you had delivered your work 6 months ahead of time.

Do you still impose that much lead time on yourself? My impression from the sneak peeks you give us on Next Men is that it's more like 3-months these days.

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John Byrne
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Posted: 27 May 2011 at 3:54am | IP Logged | 10  

It varies from series to series, mostly depending on when I pick up the assignment vs when the first issue is scheduled. For instance, I had a few things to clear off my plate before starting on the new NEXT MEN series, so I am running on what I call the "inker's schedule" on that title, finishing an issue usually about a month and a half before it ships. (I also send in pages as they are done, usually in clumps of up to half the book, so there is no mad rush for the colorist and letterer, and time for proofing.)

As I have hinted, there is a new series in the works, in addition to AFTERMATH, and since that is tentatively scheduled to ship in October, and I will be finishing the first issue about mid June, that puts me about 4 months ahead of shipping, which is more usual.

HIDDEN YEARS I was able to start some five months before it was due, or nine months before it shipped, which was usual even for me!*

(During the time I was working on FANTASTIC FOUR, Marvel changed the schedules twice, in order to build in more office time. They did this by taking time away from us, so those who were ahead of schedule lost their lead time. As I approached the end of my run on that title I was in a meeting in which Shooter insisted that Marvel had NOT changed the schedules. I asked how it could be, then, that I had started on the FF three months ahead, turned in one book per month for my entire run, and was at that time running about a month late! Had somebody been messing with Doctor Doom's time machine?)

---

* And yet the first issue shipped late!! An example of incomprehensible editorial incompetence that STILL boggles my mind.

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John Byrne
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Posted: 27 May 2011 at 3:57am | IP Logged | 11  

My understanding of 'Work for hire' in regard to comics is more of an informal arrangement between creator and Editor.

'Are you able to do an issue of Spider-Man?'

'Yes I am.'

'Here's the script, I want the artwork no later than …'   

Then when a page is turned in, the artist gets get paid. If they don't hand anything in for a week, you don't get paid for that week. If the Editor is fine with that, and the creator in question can live like that, then that's okay.

••

That wasn't the way it worked when I was at Marvel. Often artists and writers would voucher for the work as soon as they got the assignment, before a line was drawn or a word scripted.

My own policy from the start has been not to voucher for the work until it was all done, but that was a personal choice (almost a superstition, really!) not company policy.

The Companies DID have a policy, if writers or artists failed to turn in the work after having been paid for it, of subtracting the amount of payment from those writer and artist's royalty checks and other revenue, until the amount was recouped. (There was one somewhat notorious instance of a fairly big name artist at DC who pitched a project, got paid for it, and procrastinated so long the thing never DID come out!)

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John Byrne
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Posted: 27 May 2011 at 4:03am | IP Logged | 12  

As I have mentioned before, one of my favorite Late Artist stories came from the days when Archie Goodwin was EiC.

An artist was terminally late on a book. He'd started work in April (let's say) and was supposed to turn it in in July, but when the time came, he went to Archie and said he absolutely must have three more months. "Okay," said Archie, "let's pretend you started in January."

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