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Brett Wilson
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Posted: 13 November 2011 at 4:19pm | IP Logged | 1  

Frank Miller is generally pretty clueless when it comes to politics. He usually ends up putting his foot in his mouth when he speaks on such matters. This little rant is no exception.
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Pascal LISE
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Posted: 13 November 2011 at 4:31pm | IP Logged | 2  

Ha, OK.
That's why his mouth stinks so much.

Thanks for the clue, Brett.
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Paul Simpson Simpson
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Posted: 13 November 2011 at 4:55pm | IP Logged | 3  

"kids today have it easy" should, as an individual, have had it hard growing up.

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Just as people who didn't grow up poor should not talk about how hard it is. If you don't grow up poor then you have no idea what it is like. Knut did you grow up poor ?

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Keith Thomas
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Posted: 13 November 2011 at 4:57pm | IP Logged | 4  

I care as little about what Miller thinks of the protesters as I do about what the protesters think. You don't like the way this country is run VOTE, you don't like what other people are doing with their lives, who cares. It's a free country and that includes the right to whine about whatever you want, radical Islam? What? I might be afraid of muslims if they weren't busy killing each other and their own kids.
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Marcel Chenier
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Posted: 13 November 2011 at 5:24pm | IP Logged | 5  

"Since the Sixties and Seventies, when the war in Vietnam was raging, and young people in this Nation -- many of whom were being shipped off to die in that war, with no choice whatsoever -- rose up to make themselves heard, there have been many protest groups, and few, to my eyes, have had the same core, the same energy, the same drive as the Vietnam protesters. So many, in fact, have read as little more than wannabes, trying to bottle a piece of the same energy that so fired previous generations, yet in the end coming across as somewhat angrier variants on flash mobs."

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Your protests will never be as good, meaningful, or true as our protests.
This isn't far from what Miller says, without Miller's decision to echo foul-mouthed FOX-like talking points.


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Knut Robert Knutsen
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Posted: 13 November 2011 at 5:34pm | IP Logged | 6  

"Knut did you grow up poor ?"

Nope. My dad didn't have much growing up after the war, but that's another matter. But I am not claiming for myself the right to go "kids today have it easy". 

I'm just saying that when people talk about military service or "having it easy" there's implicit in that a suggestion that the speaker went through military service, the speaker "had it hard". The argument as it is used in this context can only derive its authority from personal experience.

It is possible to simply discuss the statistics and say "the average child today has more advantages and opportunities and fewer obstacles and obligations than the average child 20 years ago". Or say "there are many aspects of military service that can be character building and beneficial to young people."  And that's fine. One doesn't need to have had a certain experience with an issue in order to discuss it.

But once it gets emotional and one talks about normative behavior "you should behave like this" or "you don't know how easy your life is" then personal experience does come into it.

Bottom line: Miller telling OWS kids in accusatory tones to enlist is just him being a hypocrite. He never served, he doesn't get to take that tone and tell others to. And of the pundits on Fox news saying virtually the same thing, how many actually served?

We may not have had x-boxes and such growing up, and money was sometimes tight, but we were never poor. I'm in no position to say "ooh, you have it too easy, now". Because quite frankly kids today have a world my generation and generations before that were trying very hard to bring about. As a kid, I dreamt about some day getting something as cool as an X-box. (Although personally I stopped playing computer games when my Commodore 64 broke down.)

I didn't dream about an Ipad because quite frankly even sci-fi didn't dream of an Ipad at the time. 

In the end, I'm really not as concerned with all the little failings of various members of the OWS movement as I am with what they're trying to achieve. Which appears to be for Wall Street and big business to be held accountable and to carry a larger portion of the burden. And for various reforms to improve government services (not to just spend more money, but to improve the quality of services provided)

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Mark Waldman
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Posted: 13 November 2011 at 6:00pm | IP Logged | 7  

Having a problem with corporate greed is a lot different than the toxic insanity the Tea Party sells. Don't see any connection whatsoever.
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Teod Tomlinson
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Posted: 13 November 2011 at 6:29pm | IP Logged | 8  

Miller comes off as another confused sad clueless drone of Faux "news" propaganda in his rant. 
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Paul Simpson Simpson
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Posted: 13 November 2011 at 6:31pm | IP Logged | 9  

But I am not claiming for myself the right to go "kids today have it easy".

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Fair enough. I grew up destitute. Not Poor. So I can. I get annoyed when people who have no idea what poverty is like talk like they do. Hell some people talk like poverty is some kind of virtue.

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 Which appears to be for Wall Street and big business to be held accountable and to carry a larger portion of the burden.

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I personally won't take them seriously until they go after the politicians too.That's where the problem is. The OWS people need to camp out in front of The Capital and White House too. It's been said that the Corporation's are buying politicians. That is absolutely true. However you can't buy what isn't for sell. Corperate greed is bad, but no worse than the power hungry greed of every elected official in Washington.

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Steven Myers
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Posted: 13 November 2011 at 7:13pm | IP Logged | 10  

How does occupy wall street have anything to do with the war on terrorism?

I'm okay with any protests.  It's the American way.  But no violence/law breaking.  Martin Luther King Jr. knew how to protest.

OWS seems more informed and less vile than the Tea Party stuff.  At least so far....

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Robert Cosgrove
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Posted: 13 November 2011 at 7:15pm | IP Logged | 11  

Advice to enlist seems at best a side point to Miller's rant, coming as it does as an alternative at the end of his suggestion that the "loser" occupiers "go home to your momma's basement."

There's no doubt that advice to enlist most often carries weight by offered by one who actually served in the military (tho' those of a certain turn of mind might dismiss this as the advice of a militarist), but the validity of the advice doesn't depend on the messenger.  The fact is that at least since Nixon abolished the draft, the majority of our populace, for better or for worse, doesn't serve.  To dismiss any and all of those who suggest military service or advocate for military action in a specific situation as "chickenhawks" is simply ad hominem attack.  (Do I remember that Franklin Roosevelt was a chickenhawk?  Fortunately, Hitler was not a chickenhawk, having served his country in World War I.  That makes me feel better).

Robert Heinlein in Starship Troopers posited a society where all had rights of citizenship but only those who served in the military could vote.  Perhaps this is a good idea (one would anticipate that it would, at the very least, do wonders for benefits for retired military members, a point Heinlein doesn't address), but it isn't the approach our society has chosen.

Should non-taxpayers be allowed a voice on tax policy?
Should men be allowed an opinion on abortion?
Should non-teachers get to opine on education?
Should non-lawyers have any say on the legal system?
Should only former professional athletes be allowed to write on the sports pages?
Should medical malpractice cases be decided only by doctors?
Should only professional comic artists and writers be allowed to comment on comic books on the John Byrne forum?




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Brennan Voboril
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Posted: 13 November 2011 at 7:30pm | IP Logged | 12  

Ha ha, Robert good points.  Free speech is what I say.  But I also say if you say something in public be prepared to back it up.  
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