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Greg Kirkman Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 May 2006 Location: United States Posts: 15775
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Posted: 17 March 2012 at 5:32pm | IP Logged | 1
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As a general rule, I find retcons, or anything even remotely related that could even be mistaken as a retcon, a sign of poor writing and inability to work within the established parameters. ++++++++ This gives me the chance to ask exactly what I was thinking about posting within the last few days: What GOOD retcons have come down the pipe over the years? What additions and changes have strengthened characters and added depth to stories?
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 132361
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Posted: 17 March 2012 at 5:41pm | IP Logged | 2
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What GOOD retcons have come down the pipe over the years? What additions and changes have strengthened characters and added depth to stories?•• First one that springs to mind is the return of Captain America in AVENGERS 4. The original CAPTAIN AMERICA series (albeit with a title change) ran until the mid-fifties, with Steve Rogers continuing in the suit. When Stan and Jack brought the character back, they ignored everything that had been published after the War. A definite case of retroactive continuity. And a good one!
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Greg Kirkman Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 May 2006 Location: United States Posts: 15775
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Posted: 17 March 2012 at 6:26pm | IP Logged | 3
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Totally agree! I just recently re-read the earliest Avengers stories, and Cap's return really gave the book a shot in the arm (...not that it needed one, mind you!) and broadened the burgeoning Marvel mythology considerably. Of course, years later, an "explanation" was devised for Cap's Commie-smashing period in the 50s...
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 132361
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Posted: 17 March 2012 at 6:48pm | IP Logged | 4
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Early fan-wankery, and a definite case of gilding the lily.
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Lars Johansson Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 04 June 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 6113
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Posted: 18 March 2012 at 10:16am | IP Logged | 5
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Thanks for retcon information. I fidn it interesting. I love it and want more. I am not that familiar with Cap. Please, how was the 50's part retconned away? I understand that it was well written, no doubt about that. And how was the 50's part returned and what made it bad please?
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David Kingsley Kingsley Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 18 June 2006 Location: United States Posts: 1098
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Posted: 18 March 2012 at 11:10am | IP Logged | 6
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Lars, Essentially, Lars, there were three issues of Captain America published in the 1950s which became incongruous with the reveal that Rogers had been frozen, and, instead of ignoring these, Marvel incorporated them (and continues incorporating them) into continuity. After Captain America was revealed as having been frozen in the Twilight of World War II, Marvel established that the 50s Cap (a schoolteacher with Bucky as a student) that fought "Commies", was a government experiment to recreate Operation Rebirth and create a new Captain America.
He was given the Super Soldier serum, but not the vita rays to stabilize it, resuting in a mental instability. He began to think that everyone was a commie, and, later, when Steve Rogers was revived, took on the mantle of the Great Dictator, who bore a swastika on his bicep. This Cap's Bucky, Jack Monroe, went on to be Nomad, during the 1990s and was shot to death by James Buchanan Barnes's Bucky during the original Winter Soldier storyline, in 2004.
Edited by David Kingsley Kingsley on 18 March 2012 at 11:12am
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Matt Hawes Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 16433
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Posted: 18 March 2012 at 11:11am | IP Logged | 7
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Here's some explanation on how the 1950's comics were retconned: 1950s Captain America.
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Robert Bradley Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 September 2006 Location: United States Posts: 4831
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Posted: 18 March 2012 at 11:16am | IP Logged | 8
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**Steve Rogers becomes Captain America in 1941** Captain America I - Steve Rogers - 1941-45 (disappeared, frozen in ice) Captain America II - William Naslund (Spirit of '76) - 1945-46 (killed in action) Captain America III - Jeff Mace (Patriot) - 1946-49 (retired) **No Captain America 1949-53** Captain America IV - William Burnside (Grand Director) - 1953-54 (put into suspended animation, revived as Grand Director) **No Captain America 1954-64** Carl Zante (Acrobat) - 1963 (fought the Human Torch disguised as Captain America) **Captain America I is revived in 1964** Captain America I 1964-74 **Steve Rogers retires and assumes the identity Nomad in 1974** Baseball Player Bob Russo - 1974 (suffered a broken arm in his only outing) Biker "Scar" Turpin - 1974 (one unsuccessful outing) Captain America V - Roscoe Simons, 1974-75 (killed by Red Skull) **Captain America I resumes identity of Captain America in 1975** Captain America I 1975-1987 **Government strips Steve Rogers of Captain America identity in 1987** Captain America VI - John Walker (USAgent), 1987-89 Captain America I 1989-08 **Captain America I killed in 2008** Captain America VII - James Barnes (Bucky/Winter Soldier), 2008-10 (resumes identity of Winter Soldier) **Captain America I is revived in 2010** Captain America I 2010-
Edited by Robert Bradley on 18 March 2012 at 12:15pm
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Matt Hawes Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 16433
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Posted: 18 March 2012 at 11:22am | IP Logged | 9
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I wouldn't count the Acrobat officially anymore than I would count any villain pretending to be a hero as actually having been that hero.
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Lars Johansson Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 04 June 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 6113
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Posted: 18 March 2012 at 11:48am | IP Logged | 10
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Thanks. That William Burnside idea was not so good.
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Robert Bradley Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 September 2006 Location: United States Posts: 4831
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Posted: 18 March 2012 at 11:50am | IP Logged | 11
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Matt - I just wanted to mention his masquerading as Cap just to put in into historical perspective.That issue of Strange Tales may have been used to gauge interest in a revival of Cap.
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Mike Norris Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 4274
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Posted: 18 March 2012 at 1:06pm | IP Logged | 12
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QUOTE:
Thanks. That William Burnside idea was not so good |
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It was a great storyline though. Englehart and Buscema, one of the best creative teams Cap ever had.
In hindsight it might have been a better idea to place the "50s Cap" at the end of WWII and close the door on any other Caps between Steve Roger's first two stints.
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