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Wallace Sellars
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 May 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 17671
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| Posted: 24 December 2013 at 2:57pm | IP Logged | 1
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Thanks for sharing that, Joe.
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Joe Hollon
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 08 May 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 13675
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| Posted: 24 December 2013 at 3:07pm | IP Logged | 2
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Thanks for sharing that, Joe.
*****
No problem. I'm not a Randian (per se) but I enjoy a lot of the perspective objectivism puts on things. I thought it was perfect for this thread because it points out how silly the notion is that only Christians can enjoy and celebrate Christmas. Is that only Christians stampeding through the malls this time of year? I doubt it.
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Anthony J Lombardi
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Joined: 12 January 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 9410
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| Posted: 24 December 2013 at 3:19pm | IP Logged | 3
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War on Christmas ? The only group I know warring on Christmas are the Jehovah witnesses.
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Jodi Moisan
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Joined: 19 February 2008
Location: United States
Posts: 6832
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| Posted: 24 December 2013 at 3:19pm | IP Logged | 4
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I am a Santa girl all the way at christmas. I believe that the spirit of Santa is the giving spirit in a person's heart.
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Steve De Young
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 April 2008
Location: United States
Posts: 3488
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| Posted: 24 December 2013 at 3:30pm | IP Logged | 5
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American Christmas has more to do with Charles Dickens than any Biblical writer. About as much as Santa Claus has to do with the Bishop Nicholas of Myra in Lycia who lived in the 4th century. There's an American civil holiday, Christmas, that, depending on what kind of Christian you are, may or may not coincide with your celebration of the birth of Jesus. For most of U.S. history, Christians of any stripe declined to celebrate the American Christmas holiday.
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Thom Price
Byrne Robotics Member
L’Homme Diabolique
Joined: 29 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 7593
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| Posted: 24 December 2013 at 3:36pm | IP Logged | 6
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There are indeed two holidays sharing the date and the name: the secular and the religious. I'm sure there are many who celebrate, to one degree or the other, both but I find myself wishing the secular holiday would develop its own identity. It's not the "Christ Mass" that's be celebrated.
Festivus ("for the rest of us!") works for me.
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Steve De Young
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Joined: 01 April 2008
Location: United States
Posts: 3488
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| Posted: 24 December 2013 at 3:36pm | IP Logged | 7
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Bonus Fun Fact: The historical 'Santa Claus', St. Nicholas, never celebrated Christmas. The December 25th celebration was an invention of the Latin west in the early 4th century, but it wasn't celebrated in Constantinople until December 25th, 400. In the hinterlands of Asia Minor (modern Turkey) where St. Nicholas served as a Bishop, it was only celebrated years later. St. Nicholas had already been dead for several decades.
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Anthony J Lombardi
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Joined: 12 January 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 9410
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| Posted: 24 December 2013 at 3:40pm | IP Logged | 8
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See that's what I love about this website. People who are intelligent.
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Jeremy Simington
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Joined: 10 April 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 687
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| Posted: 24 December 2013 at 4:11pm | IP Logged | 9
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FYI, only 1/2 of Americans see Christmas as a religious holiday. 32% see it as more of a cultural holiday and this number is trending upward. See this article from Pew Research for more data.
I know there are no gods, so I celebrate Christmas in a completely non-religious manner. Gift-giving, great food, good will, and celebrations of love and community are all part of it for me. I'll take this opportunity to suggest that the non-religious and religious both consider making charitable donations rather than giving more stuff to people who don't need/want more stuff, which is what we do in my family.
A brief tangent:
JEFF DYER: If you're atheist, it would seem to me that Christmas wouldn't mean anything to you
This is something I also used to think when I was a religious believer, so I can relate to Jeff's thinking. However, now I know that the non-religious can find just as much (or more) meaning in all things. I'm no longer focused on pleasing any gods or looking forward to a reward in heaven. I live in the here and now and make the best life I can for myself and others in this world because it's all there is and I only have one shot at it.
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Rob Van Gessel
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Joined: 01 September 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 335
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| Posted: 24 December 2013 at 4:17pm | IP Logged | 10
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However apt that choice quote, I detest Ayn Rand with high-Richter intensity. She is the inspiration of every political sociopath I can think of and near-murderous detachment from those who suffer real hardship.
Lots of other atheists better and wiser to turn to: George Bernard Shaw, Arthur C. Clarke, Gore Vidal.
Christmas is also about memories an individual might cherish.
Richard Dawkins:
"I really like the kind of peripheral things about Christmas. I like the smell of tangerines and the smell of the tree...We give each other presents and when my daughter was a bit younger we would have a tree...We go to my sister's house for Christmas lunch which is a lovely big family occasion. Everybody thoroughly enjoys it. No church of course."
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Leigh DJ Hunt
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Joined: 20 February 2008
Location: United Kingdom
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| Posted: 24 December 2013 at 4:39pm | IP Logged | 11
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I'm an atheist but it's a Pagan festival. Not that I really go to town with it or anything anyway.
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Stephen Robinson
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Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 5835
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| Posted: 24 December 2013 at 4:45pm | IP Logged | 12
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However apt that choice quote, I detest Ayn Rand with high-Richter intensity. She is the inspiration of every political sociopath I can think of and near-murderous detachment from those who suffer real hardship.
***
SER: She has a lot in common with Jesus in that regard!
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Topic Closed)
