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Mark Haslett
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 6106
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| Posted: 10 June 2014 at 12:35pm | IP Logged | 1
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Steve: In John Oliver's case, being a Brit, he may not really have an understanding of the depth of racial history in this country and the way it still shapes identity even in the 21st century.
**
His joke implies "fictional" characters are de facto up for grabs racially. The only ones against swapping races are fussy people, stuck in the past. In other words, no fictional character can have an inherent race worth honoring.
That's a ridiculous thought, no matter what your background.
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Dan Marcoux
Byrne Robotics Member
Wha’ Happened?
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 1433
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| Posted: 10 June 2014 at 12:39pm | IP Logged | 2
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More and more movie theaters were becoming the province
of the less affluent, which Hollywood read as minorities,
especially Black people.
--
According to this article (which references an article in
Variety, which I won't link to because of the pre-page
forced ad you have to view), Hispanics are the ruling
force of the movie-going population today....
http://www.latinpost.com/articles/14529/201406
10/hispanics-will-change-the-face-of-hollywood-
movies.htm
"During an hour-long panel titled 'How the Hispanic
Audience Can Make All the Difference,' John Fithian,
president of the National Association of Theater Owners,
said. 'We are a growth business, and Hispanics have a lot
to do with it.'
Peter Filaci, of Univision, said that 19 percent of U.S.
box revenue comes from Hispanics, who only make up 17.5
percent of the population. Of course, this number will
continue to increase. By 2024, there should be an
increase of 5 million Hispanic consumers aged 18-49.
Statistics also show that Hispanics are more likely to
see movies on opening weekend than other groups.
In a year, Hispanics see an average of six movies a year.
Other groups see about four."
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Peter Hicks
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 30 April 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 1891
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| Posted: 10 June 2014 at 12:53pm | IP Logged | 3
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"My friend Delia, who studied theatre and now lives in Barbados, intends to stage an Othello adaptation with race -- and perhaps gender -- swapping."
Patrick Stewart appeared as the title character in a production of Othello where all the other actors were black. Wish I had seen that!
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Bill Collins
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 May 2005
Location: England
Posts: 11250
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| Posted: 10 June 2014 at 12:59pm | IP Logged | 4
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The other side of the coin,is that Hollywood assuming that black people won`t go to see a film with a predominantly white cast is very condescending and does them a disservice.
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Stephen Robinson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 5835
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| Posted: 10 June 2014 at 1:05pm | IP Logged | 5
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The other night, on his "news" show, John Oliver made a passing (and
snarky) comment about people who get upset when non-White actors
are cast as FICTIONAL CHARACTERS, (emphasis his)
This earned an epic eye roll from me, of course, and sent my tired old
brain rumbling down pathways that are, by now, all too familiar.
This time, tho, I found myself landing in a spot I had not visited before.
Of course I object to race-swapping in movies (which is something very
different from "colorblind casting"), and I wondered how far Oliver would
be comfortable going with his contempt for those who share my views.
If, for instance, there was a remake of GONE WITH THE WIND, would
it be perfectly acceptable to cast Will Smith as Rhett Butler?
****
SER: I saw this the other day and wondered what your response might
be. I think any reasonable debate on this topic has been ignored in
favor of concentrating on the Internet trolls (granted, no one thinks the
dumbest pro or anti abortion rights statements online is reflective of the
overall POV on the subject).
I do think there is a view that comics are "simple" and that adults
complaining about casting are wasting their time. Even if the recent
GATSBY film was released when Will Smith was in his 30s, I doubt he
would have been seriously considered and if so, it would be evidence
of Hollywood screwing a classic. John Green's FAULT IN OUR STARS,
a YA book as most comics arguably are, was faithfully cast. If the actor
cast as Johnny Storm had been cast as the male lead in Green's book,
I doubt it would just be dismissed and I doubt any criticism would be
dismissed either.
And, in fairness, if there was criticism, why would it be a racial issue,
per se? The character is white. I would love for their to be more black
characters in film. But instead of changing white characters, why not
adapt books by black authors? *raises hand*
I disagree with treating "whiteness" as a default because it implies that
whiteness is inherently "normal" and if a character is originally written
as black, then it must be intentional. That makes no sense to me.
I think supporting color-blind casting is shortsighted and allows a
predominately "white" voice to be expressed with a few "whitewashed"
roles (mostly supporting) for blacks. If you want to reach minority
audiences, then support the adaptation of books written by or about
minorities rather than colorblind cast afterthoughts.
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Gundars Berzins
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 14 March 2012
Location: United States
Posts: 1559
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| Posted: 10 June 2014 at 1:16pm | IP Logged | 6
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Take my favorite comic books and put them up on the screen, not something else.
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Mark Haslett
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 6106
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| Posted: 10 June 2014 at 1:18pm | IP Logged | 7
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Peter: "My friend Delia, who studied theatre and now lives in Barbados, intends to stage an Othello adaptation with race -- and perhaps gender -- swapping."
Patrick Stewart appeared as the title character in a production of Othello where all the other actors were black. Wish I had seen that!
**
Race/gender swapping has a long tradition in theater-- used to best effect when it's making a point.
Thus it should always be, done sparingly and thoughtfully.
That's a far cry from, "hey, these are fictional characters so who cares what race the actor is that plays the part?"
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Mark Haslett
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 6106
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| Posted: 10 June 2014 at 1:23pm | IP Logged | 8
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I saw a small production of Hamlet where the racial mix of the theater troop demanded that the play have people of mixed race all through the cast.
In this context, the "colorblind casting" worked fine as the actors embodied their parts in representative ways-- similar to the sets which were not actually castles and fields. Nothing was accurate, but everything was an effort to get across this classic play.
That's so different from how movies are made.
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Michael Kane
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 05 July 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 481
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| Posted: 10 June 2014 at 1:38pm | IP Logged | 9
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The new Time machine Movie seemed to be off base with the Novel, compared to the more truer original with Rod taylor
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Michael Kane
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 05 July 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 481
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| Posted: 10 June 2014 at 1:39pm | IP Logged | 10
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referring to the Eloi of course
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Aaron Smith
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 06 September 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 10461
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| Posted: 10 June 2014 at 4:36pm | IP Logged | 11
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During the last round of speculation about who would be the next star of DOCTOR WHO, before Peter Capaldi was chosen, there were many people talking about the idea that The Doctor could regenerate with a different race and/or gender. But what really annoyed me about that time was how many people I saw who expressed the opinion that it would be WRONG if the producers of the show didn't make such a change this time because it's "not fair" that the Doctor has always appeared as a white male.
It shouldn't be about what anyone perceives as fair. Creating good movies, TV shows, comics, or books is not about combating racism or trying to atone for the unfortunate problems that have existed and still exist in the world. Casting Idris Elba instead of Michael Fassbender as the next James Bond wouldn't make the world a better place or decrease injustice, but it would change the character that Ian Fleming created.
As a writer, I create characters based on what pops into my mind as I write. I've never once sat there and decided I need a black character or an Asian character or a white character, yet there are people of various kinds in my stories because the world I live in influences me. I resent the idea that some people think part of creating an entertaining story has to involve making sure things are "fair." A friend of mine wrote a science fiction novel which received a review that said the book was excellent, but that the reviewer could only give it 3 stars instead of 5 because there wasn't enough racial diversity in the cast of characters. Do writers have to worry about that now? We have to pass a test about the physical characteristics of our characters? Should I check every story I write to make sure it contains a certain number of minority characters before I try to sell it to a publisher?
I'm tired of people trying to fix things that aren't broken and, in doing so, unnecessarily making changes to what the characters' original creators intended. And I'm tired of the easily offended sticking their noses where they don't belong, crying "racism" where there isn't any, and making the creators of fiction worry about things other than telling good stories.
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Michael Roberts
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 14816
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| Posted: 10 June 2014 at 5:02pm | IP Logged | 12
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I saw a small production of Hamlet where the racial mix of the theater troop demanded that the play have people of mixed race all through the cast.
In this context, the "colorblind casting" worked fine as the actors embodied their parts in representative ways-- similar to the sets which were not actually castles and fields. Nothing was accurate, but everything was an effort to get across this classic play.
That's so different from how movies are made.
------
I am completely on-board with colorblind casting in this context. If you stage a play where the mom is Asian, the dad is white, and the kid is black, I don't think you are supposed to sit there and wonder what strange quirk of genetics just happened. You are supposed to focus on the performances and look past the actors' skin color in the same way that the audience pretends the bits of furniture on stage represent a house.
This is a very different thing from raceswapping in movies.
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