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Eric Ladd
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 August 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 4506
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| Posted: 24 August 2014 at 6:33pm | IP Logged | 1
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Are you guys suggesting that this increase includes people incapable of learning? Since people that used to get by on an 8th grade education are now graduating college due to it no longer strictly for the "elite", what is the supposition? What is the cause of the declining ability of the average college student? I'm sure there are lots of different reasons, but can we agree that the majority of the cause stems from an education standard that has been steadily lowered?
** edited to say, "that last one is for you, Wallace" ;)
Edited by Eric Ladd on 24 August 2014 at 6:35pm
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Eric Sofer
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 31 January 2014
Location: United States
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| Posted: 25 August 2014 at 5:33am | IP Logged | 2
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Dealing with the other half of this topic... as a Jew, I find the use of the word "nazi" despicable. There is nothing sentimental or warm or familiar about this word, and it makes me think of concentration camps, millions dispossessed and dying in agony, and a war brought about by an insane madman.
We must NEVER forget. But this is not the type of reminder that I think helps - unless there are those who are really pissed at people who enforce grammar rules. It's time for a new word.
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Wallace Sellars
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 May 2004
Location: United States
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| Posted: 25 August 2014 at 5:43pm | IP Logged | 3
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...but can we agree that the majority of the cause stems from an education
standard that has been steadily lowered?
** edited to say, "that last one is for you, Wallace" ;)
—
Ha! Thanks, Eric!
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Pete Carrubba
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| Posted: 31 August 2014 at 5:32am | IP Logged | 4
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Link
Another funny video on grammar.
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Johan Vikberg
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 08 August 2009
Location: Sweden
Posts: 188
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| Posted: 31 August 2014 at 7:51am | IP Logged | 5
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John Byrne wrote:
| That said, however silly some of the rules may be, they DO exist, and if we want to communicate in a civilized manner, we might as well learn them. |
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How do you, in US or British English, agree on what the rules are, which are current etc? Of course there’s no actual legislation on spelling/grammar/usage, but is there any authority?
In Sweden, we devote public funds to this, and for that we get some kind of state council that puts out a small, normative style guide. People seem to accept its advice for the most part, but it’s no panacea. I guess a government initiative like that would not go over as well in the US.
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Johan Vikberg
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Location: Sweden
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| Posted: 31 August 2014 at 7:55am | IP Logged | 6
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Personally, I don’t mind when people invent new usage; I love to see that.
Outright mistakes I usually just find funny and celebrate as such.
Perhaps it would be better to help people get in line and express themselves more normally, so they might have better chance at success in life. But it’s hard to correct people without ticking them off.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
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| Posted: 31 August 2014 at 7:57am | IP Logged | 7
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How do you, in US or British English, agree on what the rules are, which are current etc? Of course there’s no actual legislation on spelling/grammar/usage, but is there any authority?•• In the US, we mostly rely on school teachers to hand down the rules to each new generation. Of course, teachers can only do so much. Ill considered schemes such as "no child left behind" give us those kids needing remedial English in College.
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Tom French
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| Posted: 31 August 2014 at 9:47am | IP Logged | 8
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Ill considered schemes such as "no child left behind" give us those kids needing remedial English in College. Just wait until you see the results of the current scheme: Common Core
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Roy Johnson
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| Posted: 31 August 2014 at 2:46pm | IP Logged | 9
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Tim Cousar
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| Posted: 31 August 2014 at 5:07pm | IP Logged | 10
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Common Core will make the few kids who love math hate it.
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Steven Myers
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| Posted: 31 August 2014 at 8:32pm | IP Logged | 11
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The idea that our educational standards are declining is a total myth. We expect students to know far more, at a far earlier age. Sentences in Kindergarten, research papers in 2nd grade. Common Core has taken hits for being too demanding, and that students won't be able to keep up.
Again, the reason you have students taking remedial course in college is because in the past students at that level of ability would be in the workforce.
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Eric Ladd
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Joined: 16 August 2004
Location: Canada
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| Posted: 31 August 2014 at 9:25pm | IP Logged | 12
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Hmmm, I'll entertain your assertion, Steven, but I do have second hand knowledge of things getting softer. I can imagine someone not completing high school, entering the work force or military that eventually decides to get a college degree, but it seems too unique a situation for any prevalence. My father in law is a former teacher. He is now a Canadian Senator (government, not hockey player) and he has a friend that is a music teacher. His friend was released from his position for failing a student. There was a board review and the decision was made to let him go. He got his job back after a lengthy appeal, but the message was clear that he should pass everyone regardless of their performance. If this type of thing happens for a music appreciation class then it is most likely happening for other subjects.
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