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Tom French
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Posted: 01 September 2014 at 11:24am | IP Logged | 1  

Tests, tests, tests -- I hate tests!  As a student, I hated tests.  As a teacher, I hated tests!  You want me to quantify learning?

A test is really a tool for the teacher, not a measurement of the student.  The results of the test tell the teacher what the student has learned and what the student hasn't quite gotten yet, so that the teacher can try a different strategy with the material. 

But tests have gotten turned around -- grades matter, not applied learning, not problem-solving skills.  You can't get government money from demonstrated learning, only in the improvement of math scores.  No one's learning anything because they seek grades, not knowledge. 

Let's start "fixing" the education system with tweeking the philosophy. 

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Michael Penn
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Posted: 01 September 2014 at 2:32pm | IP Logged | 2  

Just wait until you see the results of the current scheme: Common Core

***

My older kids are in college now, having missed this; but I have a boy entering first grade and a girl entering pre-K.

Tom, what am I in for....?!


Edited by Michael Penn on 01 September 2014 at 2:33pm
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Bryan Eacret
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Posted: 01 September 2014 at 2:36pm | IP Logged | 3  

Tom, 
I love you. Come run my school district.
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Donald Miller
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Posted: 01 September 2014 at 5:37pm | IP Logged | 4  

Thanks for those stellar words of wisdom Tom!

Common Core is going to go down in flames...They overreached...They managed to peeve almost everyone.  The Conservatives seem to want it gone because of "States RIghts" and "Indoctrination"  The more liberal side argues that there is no research yo back up the majority of what they want to implement...and both sides seem to agree that the idea of increasing tets to an even more stringent level seems absurd.

Follow the money trail....Tests aren't good for students...it doesn't help them...

Tests help politicians and test companies....
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John Byrne
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Posted: 01 September 2014 at 5:55pm | IP Logged | 5  

Tests.......

As I have often said, I wouldn't want to have surgery performed on me by a doctor who couldn't check the book.

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Vinny Valenti
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Posted: 01 September 2014 at 6:44pm | IP Logged | 6  

I had interviewed someone for an IT position on my team, and I asked
him where a certain setting would be modified. He said that he didn't
know the answer, but he did go on to tell me what steps he would have
gone through on the system in order to figure it out. And what he told
me would have actually worked. I hired him - because IMO knowing
how to find the right answer is more valuable than knowing the exact
answer off the top of your head.
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Roy Johnson
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Posted: 02 September 2014 at 6:38am | IP Logged | 7  

There's the (probably) apocryphal story:

A reporter interviewed Einstein. At the end of the interview, the reporter asked if he could have Einstein's phone number so he could call if he had further questions.

"Certainly" replied Einstein. He picked up the phone directory and looked up his phone number, then wrote it on a slip of paper and handed it to the reporter.

Dumbfounded, the reporter said, "You are considered to be the smartest man in the world and you can't remember your own phone number?

Einstein replied, Why should I memorize something when I know where to find it?

from: http://www.folderarchy.com/albert-einstein/

Thinking is important, not memorizing; especially given that we have instant access to data, it's more important to know what to do with it, and how to determine if it's valid, than to remember the data.
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Koroush Ghazi
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Posted: 02 September 2014 at 6:52am | IP Logged | 8  

The problem of course is that the same argument can be used to justify
not having to memorize the multiplication tables, correct spellings,
indeed almost anything, since these days we are rarely ever more than
a few feet away from a device with the capability to answer any query.

There has to be a balance of memorizing fundamentals, and being
tested on our memory and understanding of them, along with learning
how to resolve any problem using appropriate resources.
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John Byrne
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Posted: 02 September 2014 at 7:09am | IP Logged | 9  

The problem of course is that the same argument can be used to justify not having to memorize the multiplication tables, correct spellings, indeed almost anything, since these days we are rarely ever more than a few feet away from a device with the capability to answer any query.

There has to be a balance of memorizing fundamentals, and being tested on our memory and understanding of them, along with learning how to resolve any problem using appropriate resources.

••

I agree that LEARNING is an import part of developing our brain skills. But TESTING is just a way of making nervous wrecks and/or failures out of people like me. I "don't test well," a phrase that has come into common parlance, but did not exist in all the years I was in school. It occurred to almost no one that someone like me, who did poorly on tests, might just have a problem with the pressures of the testing system. (I have trouble to this day filling out forms. Put a blank form in front of me, and I will forget my own name.)

SIDEBAR: I'm pretty sure I have mentioned this before. When I was in 12th grade, a group of guidance counselors from the different high schools around Calgary put together a program based on the assumption that seemingly bright kids who did poorly on tests might do well in a university environment. If they were allowed to "graduate" without having actually achieved the required grades, they might very well flourish in the realms of higher education, where they would be more properly stimulated.

A pool of 12 students was eventually chosen, thru arcane methods that I do not fully understand to this day. From the various high schools were selected eleven girls -- and me! My father was over the Moon! His son was going to university!

Then it turned out those guidance counselors had not bothered to run their idea past the Powers That Were at the University of Alberta. And when they did, after all our hopes had been raised, those Powers said NO WAY. Students would be admitted to the UofA only if they had passed all the proper tests!

End of that brilliant idea!

To add insult to injury, to tell our parents that the 12 of us would not be going to university after all, the schools sent out a form letter, apologizing, and using terms like "son/daughter" and "he/she." When I read the letter, I was appalled. "Really?" I said. "It was eleven girls and me! They couldn't type TWO letters??"

(Consider a Path Not Taken: If I HAD gone to UofA, instead of ACA, there would not have come a day when Ron Moppett, the Gallery director, came to me and said "I'm bringing in a show of comic book art. I want you to do a comic book as the brochure.")

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Eric Ladd
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Posted: 02 September 2014 at 7:23am | IP Logged | 10  

 Koroush Ghazi wrote:
The problem of course is that the same argument can be used to justify not having to memorize the multiplication tables, correct spellings, indeed almost anything, since these days we are rarely ever more than a few feet away from a device with the capability to answer any query.

There has to be a balance of memorizing fundamentals, and being
 tested on our memory and understanding of them, along with learning how to resolve any problem using appropriate resources.

I agree, Koroush. We memorize the tools and their proper use, but not the answers. Memorize the "I before E" and "Dropping E when adding ING" rules, but don't memorize the spelling of every word.

I've always been confused by kids that memorize the spelling of words for a spelling bee. Perhaps they are just memorizing the words that are exceptions to the rules, but it always struck me as strange.
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Koroush Ghazi
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Posted: 02 September 2014 at 7:52am | IP Logged | 11  

Funnily enough, I tend to judge my spelling in terms of whether it "looks
right" on the page (i.e. visual comparison with a memorized form) rather
than recalling the relevant rule. This is one of the reasons why, after
years of reading the confused Internet usage of words like they're, their
and there, I find myself having to focus in order to ensure that I use the
correct one. My notion of "correct spelling" is becoming diluted and
deformed.

JB, I understand the issue of not testing well. As a kid I'd breeze
through tests with high grades, but suddenly found that from around
Year 9 onwards, the pressure made me more and more nervous - fear
of failure - and my scores began dropping. I had enough momentum to
make it to Uni, and there I did fairly well in tests again, but I accept that
it's not necessarily an ideal method.

But at the same time, I think some of that fear and pressure can really
make a mind focus on learning, when youthful distractions may
otherwise prove overwhelming. Some of my most intense cramming
sessions and last minute essays also resulted in some of my most
embedded memories. I suppose the brain forges the strongest neural
pathways when under stress.

Edited by Koroush Ghazi on 02 September 2014 at 7:54am
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Stephen Churay
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Posts: 8369
Posted: 02 September 2014 at 8:13am | IP Logged | 12  

Tom French:A test is really a tool for the teacher, not a measurement
of the student.  The results of the test tell the teacher what the student
has learned and what the student hasn't quite gotten yet, so that the
teacher can try a different strategy with the material. 

But tests have gotten turned around -- grades matter, not applied
learning, not problem-solving skills.  You can't get government money
from demonstrated learning, only in the improvement of math scores. 
No one's learning anything because they seek grades, not knowledge. 
====
It gets worse as you get older. High School and College were all about
grades. Just get those two pieces of paper so you join the real world
and really can start to learn.
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