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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132288
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| Posted: 30 August 2014 at 6:28am | IP Logged | 1
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…"constrained" by nine-panel grids…•• An artist who feels "constrained" by the standard grid isn't much of an artist. I love wild panel layouts as much as the next guy, but I also remind myself that artists like Kirby, Ditko, Wood and a whole lot more, worked for much of their careers in the 4/6/9 panel grid.
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Conner Dinkins
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 March 2010
Location: Georgia
Posts: 832
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| Posted: 30 August 2014 at 7:26am | IP Logged | 2
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"The Phoenix Saga" really takes shape over many issues. I had a trade paperback of it years ago and it unfolds into a bigger tale. The main difference in the old comics was that it was more like a TV show. There were main storylines going on that were resolved and some postponed til later but the Phoenix subplot became larger more like a season ender. Nowadays it would be crossed over and hyped and 30 issues but that would have ruined that story. That story was particular to the X-men and rightly so, nowadays they want every character in the universe to respond and bounce off these stories.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132288
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| Posted: 30 August 2014 at 7:54am | IP Logged | 3
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"The Phoenix Saga" really takes shape over many issues. I had a trade paperback of it years ago and it unfolds into a bigger tale. The main difference in the old comics was that it was more like a TV show. There were main storylines going on that were resolved and some postponed til later but the Phoenix subplot became larger more like a season ender.•• I don't think you'll find too many "postponed" storylines during my run on UNCANNY. Once I was gone, Chris developed (or further developed) his habit of revisiting previous stories and "revealing" that the X-Men had actually FAILED in the original, so this might create an illusion of "postponed" endings. But the stories I worked on mostly finished.* __________ * I am compelled to say "mostly" because Chris, working thousands of miles from where I was, would sometimes script scenes other than as I intended. The (in)famous Kitty-kisses-herself scene, from "Days of Future Past," is an example of such. My story was complete and finished. Chris made it open ended. (Hmmmm..... Since Wolverine has usurped Kitty's role, does he "impulsively" kiss himself in the recent movie?)
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Conner Dinkins
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 March 2010
Location: Georgia
Posts: 832
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| Posted: 30 August 2014 at 12:26pm | IP Logged | 4
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(Hmmmm..... Since Wolverine has usurped Kitty's role, does he "impulsively" kiss himself in the recent movie?)
---
He pinches his own butt at the end.
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Jason Schulman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 08 July 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 2473
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| Posted: 30 August 2014 at 12:39pm | IP Logged | 5
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Stan and Jack didn't worry about where the Avengers were when Galactus attacked.
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Easy answer: "they were someplace else!"
(Which one could easily assume in the first place. If one cared.)
I miss the days when a plot element could go on and on (a) without being explicitly labeled "Part 1," "Part 2," etc. (because Every Issue Is Someone's First Issue), and (b) without being utterly boring. Perfect example: Roger Stern on The Amazing Spider-Man, teasing us again and again that we might actually find out who the Hobgoblin is, but never giving us the big reveal.
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Carmen Bernardo
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 08 August 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 3666
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| Posted: 31 August 2014 at 5:05am | IP Logged | 6
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Those were the days. And I miss them!
I can't even follow a comic these days beyond what's supposed to be the character's origin story, let alone any stories which follow up on that. Give me a Ms. Marvel comic where the heroine's origin only takes up the first issue, and her current crossover with (depowered) Wolverine is just the second...
I wonder how today's writers and artists put up with this?
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132288
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| Posted: 31 August 2014 at 7:46am | IP Logged | 7
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As my personal style as a writer evolved, I became known as "Mr. Sub-Plot." I developed a model in which a storyline would be introduced in issue A, expanded in B, and become the main story in C. Meanwhile, other stories were following the same pattern, so there were usually three or four stories in some degree of development in each issue.Unfortunately, the changes in editorial policy -- if I can call it that -- made this almost impossible. It's tough to plot out a story that might not come front and center for several months when at any time the Higher Ups might declare yet another pointless crossover. This, as some of you may recall, is what happened with BLOOD OF THE DEMON. A story I'd had in the works for months was completely gutted when we were all ordered to "skip a year."
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 31 August 2014 at 7:53am | IP Logged | 8
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Speaking of the 4/6/9 panel grid...I have the original of this page hanging on my Studio wall, and hardly a day goes by that I don't pause for a moment to marvel at its magic. Doesn't look like Kirby felt terribly "constrained," does it? 
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Doug Centers
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 February 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 5468
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| Posted: 31 August 2014 at 5:38pm | IP Logged | 9
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You could probably argue that you got more bang for your buck (.12) with "the old stuff". There was more artwork and a more complete story in each single issue.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 31 August 2014 at 7:54pm | IP Logged | 10
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I don't think there's any "probably" about it. Silver Age comics were bursting at the seams with action and drama! The "decompressed" nonsense we see today is quite ridiculous given the average cover price.
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Eric Jansen
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 27 October 2013
Location: United States
Posts: 2292
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| Posted: 01 September 2014 at 3:25am | IP Logged | 11
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I have bought most of the softcover MARVEL MASTERWORKS over the last year or so and am greatly enjoying "discovering" the early days of the Marvel Age! (Though, of course, I have read some of these individual stories in various reprints through the years and fondly remember buying a year or two of MARVEL TALES and MARVEL'S GREATEST back when I was a kid in the 70's--it's much better to read them in order with no missing issues or pages!)
The FANTASTIC FOUR volumes are pretty hard to put down and I'm just a few issues away from the end of the Lee/Kirby era (sadly), with CAPTAIN AMERICA and (a little surprising to me) DAREDEVIL the next most enjoyable! It's not all roses though (and sorry if this is anyone's favorite) but the very early days of THOR are a little tough to get through!
This thread and my MASTERWORKS purchases thus far have me wondering--exactly where/when do the "old days" end?
I drifted away from the mainstream comics in the 90's (which seems like the BEST era to have skipped!) and even the late 80's. I think I stopped buying most of Marvel right about the time JB left FANTASTIC FOUR!
So, my question for the forum and this thread's readers especially is: At what point (year, issue, or run) should I stop buying the Masterworks?
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Carmen Bernardo
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 08 August 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 3666
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| Posted: 01 September 2014 at 3:58am | IP Logged | 12
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Being able to see the results of the work these gentlemen (and a lady or two) put into their product is one reason that I've taken to buying the Essential and Showcase reprint volumes in the past, and looking through the dollar bins at conventions. Nothing that today's "hot" artists and writers are doing now compares to it. If I were to take a step up from my hobby, this is what I'd be aiming at.
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Topic Closed)
