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Conner Dinkins
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Joined: 01 March 2010
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Posted: 01 September 2014 at 6:34am | IP Logged | 1  

My kids have read through the M.M. Spider-man and Avengers and it takes them a longer time per issue than a current comic. I don't read many new ones for this reason despite being awful representations of the characters I loved they are not as satisfying.
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John Byrne
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Grumpy Old Guy

Joined: 11 May 2005
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Posted: 01 September 2014 at 6:41am | IP Logged | 2  

It used to be figured, a few decades back, that an average comic took about twenty minutes to read -- a little less than one minute per page. Longer, if the reader took time to linger over the artwork.
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Greg Woronchak
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Posted: 01 September 2014 at 7:20am | IP Logged | 3  

The "decompressed" nonsense we see today is quite ridiculous

I had a recent online exchange where I disagreed with today's overly drawn out issues, filled with pages of talking heads all in the name of 'character development'. I mentioned that in the 'old days', character bits occured DURING action.

I was told that style doesn't 'work' today. I'd say it just isn't tried anymore!
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Brian Hague
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Posted: 01 September 2014 at 9:41pm | IP Logged | 4  

I remember back in Levitz and Giffen's Legion when the characters would have long, roundabout conversations with photostatted panels to indicate when someone had said something so thunderous or witty that everyone just had to... stop. And think... 

I particularly resented books like that because I paid for the art as well as the story, and photostats of the previous panel were a waste of money. I remember dropping the book after Giffen had his Sampayo epipheny and began drawing more simply (which was fine) but also starting relying on photostats to an ungodly extreme. Nine panels. Draw one. Photostat the other eight. No thank you. Done here.

Bendis in particular is completely in love with this space-wasting device. It comes off as particularly vain in his books because the photostats often come right after a joke. "That is how frickin' funny that joke was people!! It stopped the Juggernaut dead in his tracks! Look! The Hulk doesn't know what to say, the joke I just wrote was THAT funny!!"

Stop. Yer killin' me.

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Greg Kirkman
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Posted: 01 September 2014 at 10:25pm | IP Logged | 5  

I have bought most of the softcover MARVEL MASTERWORKS over
the last year or so and am greatly enjoying "discovering" the early days
of the Marvel Age!

+++++++++++

I've been buying the softcover Masterworks since their inception, and
am having a ball. I'd read a solid number of early Marvel Age stories
beforehand, but the Masterworks have allowed me a much broader
coverage of those early years. LOVING it!

++++++++++++

The FANTASTIC FOUR volumes are pretty hard to put down and I'm
just a few issues away from the end of the Lee/Kirby era (sadly), with
CAPTAIN AMERICA and (a little surprising to me) DAREDEVIL the next
most enjoyable! It's not all roses though (and sorry if this is anyone's
favorite) but the very early days of THOR are a little tough to get
through!

+++++++++++

I'm also nearing the end of Lee and Kirby's FF, and it's been a great
ride. Aside from Lee and Ditko's AMAZING SPIDER-MAN, I don't think
any other run of American superhero comics comes close to Lee and
Kirby's FF.


THOR is one of those books that started off a bit rough, but gets better
and better as it goes along. Of all the softcover Masterworks, the one
series I've most eagerly awaited in-between volumes is THOR. 

You want rough? It took me some four months to get through the first ANT-MAN volume!


The early DAREDEVIL and X-MEN seem to be generally--and unfairly--
remembered as being mediocre until Miller and
Claremont/Cockrum/Byrne came along.

Personally, I have a great fondness for the original X-MEN. While
perhaps not a top-tier book, it's still full of great characters and
concepts. My favorite eras are the first 20-odd issues, and the
Thomas/Adams run.

++++++++++++++

This thread and my MASTERWORKS purchases thus far have me
wondering--exactly where/when do the "old days" end?

++++++++++++++

JB recently mentioned Roger Stern's very logical choice--MARVEL
TEAM-UP # 1.

I think Kirby's departure in 1970 was certainly a major turning point,
and, perhaps, a somewhat fitting end, since it all began with Lee/Kirby's
FF in 1961. Kirby's departure removed a vital chunk of that initial
creative momentum.


Edited by Greg Kirkman on 01 September 2014 at 10:29pm
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Robert Shepherd
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Posted: 02 September 2014 at 12:03am | IP Logged | 6  

"It used to be figured, a few decades back, that an average comic took about twenty minutes to read -- a little less than one minute per page. Longer, if the reader took time to linger over the artwork."

******

I miss actually reading a comic book. I don't buy many comics any more but I did buy a story written and drawn by another favorite artist. I read that whole comic in perhaps 2 minutes? I got through it and was like WTF???? Where's the beef....;-)
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Eric Jansen
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Posted: 02 September 2014 at 3:37am | IP Logged | 7  

I have somewhat of a "sliding scale" for when the "good old days" were and how long they lasted.

I think the 12, 15, and 20 cent comics definitely were, but I would probably throw in the 25 centers too, since that's when I started and I still love that era.

I would definitely want to buy the first 100 issues of all the Stan Lee-started books, and I think I enjoyed the FF and SPIDER-MAN until issue #200 as well, at least. I think things like Kirby's solo run on CAPTAIN AMERICA, Miller's DAREDEVIL, Simonson's THOR, and Michelinie/Romita Jr./Layton's IRON MAN all fall under the 200-issue "limit."

JB's time on the FF definitely extended the "good old days" on that title way beyond the 200th issue threshold for me though!

I came back to the big books for some later runs like Ed Brubaker's DAREDEVIL and CAPTAIN AMERICA and some other things (like anything JB did!), but I certainly don't feel the need to buy all the in-between issues.
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John Byrne
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Joined: 11 May 2005
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Posted: 02 September 2014 at 6:55am | IP Logged | 8  

Where's the beef....

••

There's a phrase comic fans need to adopt! I grow so weary of sections of fandom complaining about the cover price, while apparently overlapping sections heap great praise upon the "decompressed" stories.

In some ways, this can all be traced back in a 1960s issue of CAPTAIN AMERICA, which Gene Colan opened with something like three pages of Cap walking down the street. I have long suspected the book was running very late, so Stan didn't have time to send the pages back to be redone with Cap doing something more exciting. So he scripted them with the troubled ruminating that became standard for Cap -- and a whole lot of writers thought that was a good idea.

By the time I got into the business, in the mid 1970s, "calm moments" and even "calm issues" were becoming commonplace. "Let the readers catch their breath" was an oft-heard phrase. So the characters would take a page or two to become talking heads. Was that really what the fans wanted?

Answer, yes, for some of the older fans. The ones who wanted the books to be "deep," so it could be less embarrassing to be seen reading them. But Stan had managed to be deep at the same time Jack was exploding off the page. It became de rigueur for fans and some pros to mock Stan's habit of using action scenes to have characters make speeches. But by golly, you got your money's worth in those books!!

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Bill Collins
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Joined: 26 May 2005
Location: England
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Posted: 02 September 2014 at 8:06am | IP Logged | 9  

`Let the readers catch their breath`
That made me laugh,we have a WHOLE month to catch our breath!

Edited to add...In some cases two months!


Edited by Bill Collins on 02 September 2014 at 8:08am
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Armindo Macieira
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Posted: 02 September 2014 at 8:49am | IP Logged | 10  

Why would I want to catch my breath?
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Robert Shepherd
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Posted: 02 September 2014 at 9:51am | IP Logged | 11  

I don't mind some quiet pages as long as they have some story to them. Great artists draw great quiet scenes as well as they draw action scenes and I'm here for the art first.

I have a story I wrote and targeted 4 issues with 28 pages of story in each issue. I found it challenging to tell the story in only 28 pages. I can't fathom how comic writers can do a story 21 pages. Must be my inexperience showing.
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John Byrne
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Joined: 11 May 2005
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Posted: 02 September 2014 at 10:06am | IP Logged | 12  

I have a story I wrote and targeted 4 issues with 28 pages of story in each issue. I found it challenging to tell the story in only 28 pages. I can't fathom how comic writers can do a story 21 pages. Must be my inexperience showing.

••

Something I have done for most of my career is constantly prune and, yes, compress. As I work thru a story, I look ahead, thinking Do I really need three pages for this? Could I do it in two? Could I do it in one?

And the more I am able to prune as I go, the more I open up the issue for more story!

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