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Anthony J Lombardi
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: January 12 2005
Location: United States
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| Posted: September 29 2014 at 5:47pm | IP Logged | 1
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A debate arose on the radio the other day about Batman. One of the hosts said he was a superhero. The other disagreed because he didn't have any super powers. He called him a costumed crusader.
My first thought was that he was wrong. Batman was a superhero. But as I continued to listen to his argument, I found it had merit.
Anyway I thought it was a good topic for discussion. Not about only Batman but other comic characters as well.
Is Batman a superhero? What about Captain America and Tony Stark?
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
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| Posted: September 29 2014 at 5:57pm | IP Logged | 2
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It's important not to literalize the word "super" in "superhero." sometimes the word refers to amazing powers certain people have. Other times, to people who perform "superhuman" feats.* It is, in many instances, merely hyperbole. (We elect Miss Universe, but do we really think she is the most beautiful girl in the universe?)___________ * "Superhuman" is itself pure hyperbole. If a human is doing it, it's not superhuman. It may be more than most mere mortals can accomplish, but it is not beyond the range of human capabilities.
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Joe Hollon
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| Posted: September 29 2014 at 6:21pm | IP Logged | 3
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Whatever a superhero is, Batman is certainly one of them.
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Ray Brady
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| Posted: September 29 2014 at 6:45pm | IP Logged | 4
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If you want to be pedantic, the host is correct. A hero without super-powers is not technically a superhero. In a broader context, however, you need to look at the nature of the talents that they do display. Tony Stark is not merely an inventor, he is the creator of technology that is far beyond what humans are actually capable of producing. Oliver Queen is not merely a good archer; he is infallible to a degree no human could match.
Likewise, Batman is capable of feats that no human crime fighter could possibly duplicate. He is indefatigable, unmatched in physical combat, an inventor just below Tony Stark's level, and possessed of seemingly limitless financial resources. Add these all up, and you've crossed the line into de facto super-powers.
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Brian Hague
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| Posted: September 29 2014 at 7:41pm | IP Logged | 5
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Batman is a centerpiece and one of the founding fathers of the super-hero genre. He exists in super-hero comics. He fights super-villains. He hangs out with other super-heroes. His universe is a super-hero universe. The laws of physics, morality, and genre fiction that apply to super-heroes also apply to Batman.
To say that he is not a super-hero is absurd. What your friend is arguing is a classification a step below the overall term "super-hero," the phrasing for which would go something like,"given that there are super-heroes and that Batman is one of them, what sort of super-hero is he?"
"Caped Crusader" is an apt term for the type of super-hero Batman is. It does not supplant or cancel out the category of "super-hero" itself.
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James Long
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| Posted: September 29 2014 at 7:43pm | IP Logged | 6
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Superman was the first costumed crime-fighter (wasn't he?) whose existence and successful publication record spawned a genre that gets i'ts name from the Original Super where characters roughly speaking share certain ideals . Helping victims, stopping crime etc.
Ergo (*) the superhero is a state of moral activation which by extension means that anyone even real people can be superheroes. Whether or not they wear a costume although ideally they should have a cape, leotards and always a helmet if they are riding a bicycle to the crime scene. __________________
* writer has no idea what Ergo means but thinks he sounds intellectual.using it.
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Stephen Robinson
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| Posted: September 29 2014 at 9:26pm | IP Logged | 7
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When I think of "superheroes," my criteria is not based on
power or skill but on their actual heroism. There are heroes in
the world and these characters are SUPER heroes. Batman
instantly qualifies.
Meanwhile, there are a lot of characters with "super powers,"
who I wouldn't consider "superheroes" or even heroes. (*Cough*
guy in MAN OF STEEL *cough*)
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Greg Kirkman
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| Posted: September 29 2014 at 9:41pm | IP Logged | 8
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One of my favorite things about Batman is that he has a foot in each
camp; he's a grim creature of the night waging his one-man war against
twisted criminals in his own little pulp-noir city of Gotham...but he's also
right at home hanging out with the JLA and having all sorts of
globetrotting and cosmic adventures. These don't necessarily have to
be mutually-exclusive concepts, because Batman is flexible enough to
work both ways.
So, he's both a costumed crimefighter AND a superhero.
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Brian Rhodes
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| Posted: September 30 2014 at 8:57am | IP Logged | 9
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Batman is a centerpiece and one of the founding fathers of the super-hero genre. He exists in super-hero comics. He fights super-villains. He hangs out with other super-heroes. His universe is a super-hero universe. The laws of physics, morality, and genre fiction that apply to super-heroes also apply to Batman.
Perfect.
Despite the lack of powers, as long I as I can remember, I've considered Batman a superhero. It never occurred to me that he was anything else (or less).
Edited by Brian Rhodes on September 30 2014 at 8:59am
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David Allen Perrin
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| Posted: September 30 2014 at 3:52pm | IP Logged | 10
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Batman is a centerpiece and one of the founding fathers of the super-hero genre. He exists in super-hero comics. He fights super-villains. He hangs out with other super-heroes. His universe is a super-hero universe. The laws of physics, morality, and genre fiction that apply to super-heroes also apply to Batman.
I feel the same way about Captain America in this regard.
I also believe a 'superhero' is one who does heroic deeds for the greater good at great risk to himself/herself.
Your costumes, powers and mileage may vary.
Batman is a superhero by my definition. No powers needed.
But by my definition….is Popeye a superhero? When things get hairy he drops a can of spinach and he is off to save the day….
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Robert Cosgrove
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| Posted: September 30 2014 at 4:07pm | IP Logged | 11
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I'm reminded of Dick Giordano, while editor at Charlton, preferring the term "action hero," which he felt better described Peacemaker, Judo Master, the Fightin' 5, the Ditko Blue Beetle, the Question, etc., with Captain Atom being the super powered exception in the lot.
Not to pull a Ditko on you all, but maybe we spend too much time thinking about who is a SUPER hero, and not enough about what makes a HERO.
(And the answer, of course, is a white horse owned by the Phantom. Sorry, couldn't resist.)
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Kip Lewis
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| Posted: September 30 2014 at 4:14pm | IP Logged | 12
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I would also add that these definitions
are not absolutes either, as in all or
nothing.
It is like people who say the FF aren't
superheroes because they don't fight
crime. They may not be costume crusaders
or costume crime fighters, but they are
superheroes. Superhero is a broader term
than just one type of hero.
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Topic Closed)
