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Marcio Ferreira
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 September 2008
Location: Brazil
Posts: 2518
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| Posted: 30 December 2014 at 5:43pm | IP Logged | 1
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Jason, the numbers, rates and statistics are produced by each nation, not these organization you mentioned, they simply gather, organize and infer on the data produced by each country.
Please, read THIS article on how Argentina (just an example of a Bolivarian Nation in South America, under strong influence of Cuba and Venezuela).
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Jason Schulman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 08 July 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 2473
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| Posted: 30 December 2014 at 9:59pm | IP Logged | 2
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Again, do you think the CIA lies to itself? You think the CIA -- which tried to assassinate Fidel Castro numerous times -- would want to make the Cuban health care system look nicer than it really is? Gimme a break.
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David Miller
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 3010
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| Posted: 30 December 2014 at 10:20pm | IP Logged | 3
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The CIA lies to itself all the time. That's why it's called the CIA.
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Kevin Hagerman
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Joined: 15 April 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 17997
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| Posted: 30 December 2014 at 11:35pm | IP Logged | 4
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Yes, but to its advantage. Not to putting Cuba ahead of America in infant mortality. No gain in that.
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Marcio Ferreira
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Joined: 20 September 2008
Location: Brazil
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| Posted: 31 December 2014 at 3:31am | IP Logged | 5
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Jason, in this case, it is not lies. Really, how do you think these numbers come up? Do you think CIA has operatives in Cuba taking notes of each child that is born? Or the pregnancy rates? Really?No man, they don't. The government in Cuba does that. And I trust them for producing statistics as much as I trust the North Koreans. By the way, do you know that North Korea call themselves a Democracy? That is because they have elections every now and them and 100% of the votes (yes, 100%) are supporting the current dictator. If you don't trust me, please, go and check for yourself. CIA or United Nations, they don't have the structure in place to produce ALL the statistics they use. What I think is unfortunate and sad, is that people jump on saying that Cuba has a great health system, that some statistics are better than the ones in USA. Really? Do you really believe that Cuba dictators are doing good for these people? A country that enslaves its own population by turning them into "doctors" and renting their work force for money? It feels like a twisted way of thinking, the way people compare USA nd Cuba in these conversations is like looking at Megan Fox and paying attention only to her ugly finger. It is like saying "you see America is ugly, look at the finger!!!".
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Kevin Hagerman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 15 April 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 17997
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| Posted: 31 December 2014 at 11:25am | IP Logged | 6
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It's partially that Cuba has a better health system than the USA, and THAT'S partially that the USA's is so awful. We're not a high hurdle. Again, why would the CFUCKINGIFUCKINGA publish numbers that make Cuba look good if it thought they were propaganda? Wouldn't they stipulate the numbers were unreliable, or simply omit them because the data wasn't available? Maybe it's time to ask where you are getting YOUR data from. You can't just say it's obvious Cuba's grinding fetuses into their cigars or whatever, because that's a bad thing and Cuba is bad therefore Cuba does it because it's a bad thing and Cuba does bad things. You need to show it.
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Marcio Ferreira
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 September 2008
Location: Brazil
Posts: 2518
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| Posted: 31 December 2014 at 11:32am | IP Logged | 7
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Kevin, Cuba is dictatorship in which having an opinion that is not state approved is a crime, what else do you need?
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Jason Schulman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 08 July 2004
Location: United States
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| Posted: 31 December 2014 at 3:06pm | IP Logged | 8
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It is entirely possible for a one-party Communist dictatorship to have a superior health care system than that of the United States. Such is the unfortunate nature of the U.S. health care system. You may not like this, but the world was not created for you.
The North Korea comments are a canard. The CIA and WHO aren't denying that NK is a totalitarian state (less a Communist state than a hereditary monarchy at this point!).
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Kevin Hagerman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 15 April 2005
Location: United States
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| Posted: 31 December 2014 at 6:20pm | IP Logged | 9
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I need proof they're cooking the books. That's ALL I need. What you are offering is circular reasoning. "Look at that asshole Chris and those thugs he hangs out with." "How do you know they're thugs?" "Who else would hang out with an asshole like Chris?" "Oh, look; it's a bus stop. They weren't hanging out at all." "Humph! Must be the asshole/thug bus..."
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Marcio Ferreira
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Joined: 20 September 2008
Location: Brazil
Posts: 2518
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| Posted: 01 January 2015 at 6:26am | IP Logged | 10
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Kevin, there will be no proof, only circumstantial indication. And why? Because Cuba is a dictatorship. Because its people are not allowed to voice their opinions. Because statistics like that are used as Propaganda. Because it is a communist country, their rulers follow the ideology that killed more people than Nazis. What is the difference between North Korea and Cuba, for their people? Very little, the inhabitants are slaves to their governments. Some people here said that there is no connection between child mortality rates and abortion, and that is ludicrous. If ANY indication of problems with the baby is found during the early months, the STATE, not the individual, will make a decision to terminate the pregnancy. It is not like the woman is allowed to decide if she wants to carry a baby with any problem. If they identify a child with Down Syndrome, they will decide for the abortion. That alone is a strong reason to avoid problems. Maybe you are not aware of that but I lost a child in 2011, my daughter had a genetic syndrome, and the doctors made every effort to try and save her life, I did everything I could to save her life, but she had a genetic syndrome (not Down) and several bad formation problems, but we tryed to save her life. Unfortunately she died only 2 weeks after she was born. So, here is another baby that will go to increase the statistics of mortality rate of babies. If I was a Cuban citizen, I could not have the opportunity to try and save my daughter's life. My perception is that people in USA and other democratic nations take their liberty for granted and forget that Communism killed more than Nazism, that Che Guevara was a racist butcher that killed homosexuals, women and children, but many made him a symbol for freedom and liberty. That is disgusting.
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Kevin Hagerman
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Location: United States
Posts: 17997
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| Posted: 01 January 2015 at 10:35pm | IP Logged | 11
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Yeah, I can't find anything that says Cuba has a policy of forcing people to have abortions. I'll stipulate that I would find such a policy as horrific and abhorrent as one that denied a woman the right to have an abortion, but I don't see that Cuba is doing this. Now, China has on occasion (and have a policy that basically makes having a second child prohibitively expensive, resulting in a large number of de facto forced abortions) done such a thing, but nothing on Cuba.
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Marcio Ferreira
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Location: Brazil
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| Posted: 02 January 2015 at 7:09am | IP Logged | 12
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Kevin, it is a communist country. In "Democratic" North Korea 100% of the votes (yes, they do have elections) are for the dictator. And, just like in Cuba, the rulers are in the same family for over half century.But, yeah, they don't force people to do anything... it is just coincidence that abortion rates are outrageous...
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