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Vishwas Aragam
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 August 2007
Posts: 120
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| Posted: 07 April 2015 at 3:55pm | IP Logged | 1
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This is all very nice, but I'm still attempting to understand exactly what experience this woman suffered that was not self-inflicted; she's a grown woman, thirty-three years of age, who according to her own testimony, is still frightened of her parents. She could have chosen to abort the pregnancy, but she didn't. Instead, like a child, this thirty-three year old woman chose to do nothing, as if the live birth of a child was not a logical and likely outcome of her pregnancy.
*****
The thing is we can't understand because we did not live her life. She lived 33 years a certain way that informed the choices that she made. Hindu families can be very conservative (I guess as any religious communities can). I'm a guy and if I got a girl pregnant out of wedlock, some in my family would never speak to me again.
This woman felt she could not go to her family for help, because her upbringing. That's sad.
Her going to jail for a miscarriage is absolutely dumb however. Nothing can excuse that.
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Robert LaGuardia
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 15 November 2007
Location: United States
Posts: 1296
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| Posted: 07 April 2015 at 4:26pm | IP Logged | 2
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She wasn't afraid of her parents enough to not have the affair. Her jail sentence is inexcusable but so is her decision to put that baby in the dumpster.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132336
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| Posted: 07 April 2015 at 4:31pm | IP Logged | 3
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She wasn't afraid of her parents enough to not have the affair. Her jail sentence is inexcusable but so is her decision to put that baby in the dumpster.•• So many perfect people on this Forum! And all men!
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Robert LaGuardia
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 15 November 2007
Location: United States
Posts: 1296
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| Posted: 07 April 2015 at 4:47pm | IP Logged | 4
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That's exactly it, I'm not perfect and when I make bad decisions I take responsibility for them.
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Michael Roberts
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 14816
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| Posted: 07 April 2015 at 7:10pm | IP Logged | 5
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If abortions were easier for women to have, perhaps there'd be fewer women who'd have to choose between acknowledging a pregnancy out of wedlock and being ostracized by her family and culture.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 07 April 2015 at 7:59pm | IP Logged | 6
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In the early years of the 20th Century, and before, abortion was the number one form of birth control in this country. Abortions were legal and usually performed by midwives.
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Kevin Hagerman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 15 April 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 17997
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| Posted: 08 April 2015 at 2:33am | IP Logged | 7
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If men got pregnant, abortions would be available at ATMs. -- Maybe, for nine months. In short order, women would be the men as men watched their stock plummet and women saw their opportunities unfold. And both genders, sadly, probably won't have learned a thing.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 08 April 2015 at 7:17am | IP Logged | 8
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Maybe, for nine months. In short order, women would be the men as men watched their stock plummet and women saw their opportunities unfold. And both genders, sadly, probably won't have learned a thing.•• I can't follow your reasoning.
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Joseph Gauthier
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 11 March 2009
Posts: 1415
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| Posted: 08 April 2015 at 12:35pm | IP Logged | 9
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The state of Indiana simultaneously claims that she killed her unborn child and neglected her born child. The scientific evidence that the child drew a breath is unreliable. The evidence that she tried to abort her child was circumstantial (and was not the intent of feticide laws anyway).
Yes, I share the same questions. In this particular case, based on the limited information I have, I tend to find the prosecution's narrative more credible than that of the defense, but having not heard the proceedings in detail, I do allow for the possibility that the state is mistaken in it's interpretation of events. And that's why I qualify my judgement as a conditional.
If the woman in question gave birth to a living child, and subsequently left that child to die, the nature of that craven act is almost too hideous to put into words and the state has a vested interest in taking punitive measures. If.
But before examining evidence, it's essential to establish that the accusation does, in fact, represent a violation of the law. And so I will ask: apart from the case in question, do you deny that in the state of Indiana, it is a felony violation of the law for a parent to neglect or abandon a living child in a manner resulting in the death of the child? And if you do not, do you believe that it should not be?
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Michael Roberts
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 14816
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| Posted: 08 April 2015 at 12:46pm | IP Logged | 10
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QUOTE:
| In this particular case, based on the limited information I have, I tend to find the prosecution's narrative more credible than that of the defense |
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You find it credible that she both killed a fetus and neglected a living baby?
QUOTE:
| If the woman in question gave birth to a living child, and subsequently left that child to die, the nature of that craven act is almost too hideous to put into words and the state has a vested interest in taking punitive measures. |
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According to the prosecution, the baby died within seconds of birth. According to the defense, the fetus was stillborn. In either scenario, characterizing the act as leaving the child to die is inaccurate. The prosecution did not try to hide the fact that they were trying to punish an attempted self-abortion.
QUOTE:
| But before examining evidence, it's essential to establish that the accusation does, in fact, represent a violation of the law. |
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How about we avoid the obfuscation of the issues at hand and talk about the evidence?
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Joseph Gauthier
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 11 March 2009
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| Posted: 08 April 2015 at 12:46pm | IP Logged | 11
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The thing is we can't understand because we did not live her life.
Were that the standard, no one could sit in judgement of anyone. Thankfully that isn't the standard.
This woman felt she could not go to her family for help, because her upbringing. That's sad.
It is sad. But it does not justify the neglect of a child, resulting in death. If she committed said act, that is where sympathy ends.
Her going to jail for a miscarriage is absolutely dumb however.
If the child was indeed still born, as you clearly believe, you are correct in your judgement, and this woman's incarceration is a terrible tragedy.
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Charles Valderrama
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 4721
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| Posted: 08 April 2015 at 12:49pm | IP Logged | 12
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Pity that the children murdered in schools and classrooms due to rampant gun laws aren't as high of a priority on the life-scale as a fertilized egg in the womb apparently is.
Now THAT'S a fact that boggles the mind.
-C!
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