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Brad Brickley
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 29 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 8286
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| Posted: 12 June 2015 at 7:34am | IP Logged | 1
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"The only thing worse than being talked about is not being talked about."
***
Yeah, I suppose that's true with some and especially this lot.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132390
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| Posted: 12 June 2015 at 8:49am | IP Logged | 2
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Meanwhile, in Spokane, Washington, the head of the local NAACP chapter is in trouble because her family says she's White, but she says she's Black. In the context of the discussion in this thread, if she self-identifies as Black, shouldn't we all "accept" her as Black? (This may yet turn out to be fraud on her part, of course, but until then, what?)
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Eric Ladd
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 August 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 4506
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| Posted: 12 June 2015 at 9:06am | IP Logged | 3
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A black woman trapped in a white woman's body? This self identifying has all kinds of uses.
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Andy Mokler
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 January 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 2799
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| Posted: 12 June 2015 at 12:31pm | IP Logged | 4
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Was made aware of this from following Linsner on Facebook:
http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2015/06/11/comics-creator-john-byr ne-compares-trans-people-to-peadophiles/
It's topical to this thread but what struck me is the irony in the Facebook responses to the article. Pretty much everyone is responding to it with hate. Hate based on preconceptions(about JB) and not understanding(the point).
I find it almost humorous that people don't see their own hypocrisy. Such anger and hate toward someone that they don't understand, don't get to know and don't give a chance to present their opinion accurately.
I suppose in the long run, these are not people worth going to the trouble to try and make understand but it's a real downer for me when I see so many react that way.
I mean, I was going to respond on FB but since I'm a member here, I'm one of "them" and I'm already typecast as a JB apologist. Isn't that the type of thing that all of this anger and hate is supposedly against?
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Steve De Young
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 April 2008
Location: United States
Posts: 3491
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| Posted: 12 June 2015 at 12:56pm | IP Logged | 5
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In the context of the discussion in this thread, if she self-identifies as Black, shouldn't we all "accept" her as Black?
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I would think this would apply to race even moreso than gender. Gender you're dealing with actual physiological structures and chromosomes. Race is almost purely a societal construct.
There was a story on NPR a few years ago about a Black man, who, for a living, wrote editorials from an African-American cultural perspective. It was a huge part of how he defined his identity. He went and had the genetic testing done, and found out he had zero percent African heritage. He had a lot of Native American and some Hispanic heritage that accounted for his darker skin tone, but was not an African-American at all. Clearly, this shook his world. So much so in fact that his brother completely denied the test's validity and refused to ever discuss it with him, because his brother, as far as he is concerned, is Black.
So, I would think that if you look like you could be Black, and you self identify as Black...you're pretty much Black.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132390
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| Posted: 12 June 2015 at 1:56pm | IP Logged | 6
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I haven't compared the transgendered to pedophiles at any point -- but let's not cloud the issue with facts!
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132390
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| Posted: 12 June 2015 at 3:34pm | IP Logged | 7
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The questions you pose in relation to the family who's lives are the subject of the ABC reality show are serious and important questions, and they relate to the type of subjects I hope would be seriously discussed within the personal support system before any decisions are made. But ultimately if the decision is made to seek reassignment, no imposition is made upon another. Certainly the decision can affect other people's lives in ways both large and small, but those other people are under no obligation to act or believe in any way, other than according to their own judgement.••• I am astonished to see this being so casually dismissed. Whole families are turned upside down and inside out by events like this. To say no imposition is made upon another is incredibly naive, if not downright condescending.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132390
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| Posted: 14 June 2015 at 3:58pm | IP Logged | 8
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Came upon a blog/column/item raging against me for "comparing" transgenders to pedophiles. This was the "quote" that caused the upset:Many people are tortured and driven by a desire to have sex with children. Our society frowns on this, and such people are considered mentally ill. We do not accommodate them, we do not respect them.How is being "transgender" different? Given all the twists and turns that have happened in our general understanding of how the brain and mind work -- still a work in progress -- how difficult is it to imagine a future in which it will be determined without doubt that "transgender" is, indeed, a mental illness? How will we feel about all those people who, instead of actually helping them, we encouraged in a program of self-mutilation? But this is the ACTUAL quote (emphasis added): A REALLY hard question, then: Many people are tortured and driven by a desire to have sex with children. Our society frowns on this, and such people are considered mentally ill. We do not accommodate them, we do not respect them.How is being "transgender" different? Given all the twists and turns that have happened in our general understanding of how the brain and mind work -- still a work in progress -- how difficult is it to imagine a future in which it will be determined without doubt that "transgender" is, indeed, a mental illness? How will we feel about all those people who, instead of actually helping them, we encouraged in a program of self-mutilation? This is a long, long road, and so far we have taken barely a single step upon it. (Christine Jorgenson was half a century ago. How much has changed?) Quite a difference in just a few words, isn't there?
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Lars Sandmark
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 05 October 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 3144
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| Posted: 14 June 2015 at 7:31pm | IP Logged | 9
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JB, you are guilty of forgetting something:
Your way of speaking is literate and intelligent.
Lots of people are functionally illiterate and simply don't understand long sentences.
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James Woodcock
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 September 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 7649
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| Posted: 15 June 2015 at 7:26am | IP Logged | 10
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I am astonished to see this being so casually dismissed. Whole families are turned upside down and inside out by events like this. To say no imposition is made upon another is incredibly naive, if not downright condescending. ------------------------------------------------------------ ---------------------------------- Couldn't the same be said about abortion? And yet it is supported, by and large, as a one person choice.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132390
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| Posted: 15 June 2015 at 7:35am | IP Logged | 11
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I am astonished to see this being so casually dismissed. Whole families are turned upside down and inside out by events like this. To say no imposition is made upon another is incredibly naive, if not downright condescending.---------------------- Couldn't the same be said about abortion? And yet it is supported, by and large, as a one person choice. •• Abortion is an extremely emotional choice, and, depending upon the families or individuals concerned, it can be deeply divisive. But to compare the radical transformation of someone who has been "living amongst us" for decades to the removal of what has, up to that moment, been a concept is stretching the point. It should be noted, for instance, that pregnancy and abortion can happen without anyone outside the immediate family being involved or even aware. That is hardly the case in a "My Dad is now a woman" scenario.
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Eric Sofer
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 31 January 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 4789
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| Posted: 15 June 2015 at 8:14am | IP Logged | 12
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Mr. Byrne, do you mean you expect your quotations to be taken as they were quoted? Comments out of context have a long and proud tradition in this country. Many a politician - and even standard citizen - has been destroyed by comment out of context.
Of course, your destructability is no simple matter - you are, after all, a man of steel! :)
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Topic Closed)
