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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132335
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| Posted: 01 July 2015 at 8:08pm | IP Logged | 1
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Never give the fans what they THINK they want! - Stan Lee
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Anthony J Lombardi
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 January 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 9410
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| Posted: 01 July 2015 at 8:28pm | IP Logged | 2
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Never give the fans what they THINK they want! - Stan Lee~~~~~~~~~~~ I understood what Stan meant. Now a days thou we end up getting Parker Industries.
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Darin Henry
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 30 September 2013
Location: United States
Posts: 61
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| Posted: 01 July 2015 at 8:48pm | IP Logged | 3
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So this discussion begs the question: if the old guard who were never fans are now long gone and the only people who still want to make comics are fans, then what is the solution? Who would be the appropriate stewards of Marvel or DC Comics in 2015? Even the veteran creators nowadays were fairly avid fans back in the day. Or am I totally missing the point?
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Stephen Robinson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 5835
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| Posted: 01 July 2015 at 8:55pm | IP Logged | 4
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Never give the fans what they THINK they want! - Stan
Lee
~~~~~~~~~~~
I understood what Stan meant. Now a days thou we end up
getting Parker Industries.
***
SER: I was talking to someone early who said the pattern
of rises and steep falls for Spider-Man makes him more
like Al Bundy than the Peter Parker Lee and Ditko
created. If he was a "hard luck" hero, it was in a way
that most of us were "hard luck" (money problems -- but
that seemed temporary, as he was a top student on track
for a college scholarship, girl problems -- but who
among us didn't have those in high school?)
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Paul Kimball
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 September 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 2168
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| Posted: 01 July 2015 at 9:10pm | IP Logged | 5
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I don't like the direction Marvel is taking, I generally think it's bad story-
telling but I have to say, Dan Slott has won a little respect from me as a
human being, this is not an easy board to come to being positive about
Marvel. Heck, most of us can't even type the word anymore.
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Anthony J Lombardi
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 January 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 9410
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| Posted: 01 July 2015 at 9:11pm | IP Logged | 6
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So this discussion begs the question: if the old guard who were never fans are now long gone and the only people who still want to make comics are fans, then what is the solution? Who would be the appropriate stewards of Marvel or DC Comics in 2015? Even the veteran creators nowadays were fairly avid fans back in the day. Or am I totally missing the point?`````````````` I don't think there is anything wrong with the writers and artists being fans of what they are doing. I think the problem occurs when they don't set aside their fandom. When it comes time to do the job.
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Greg Kirkman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 May 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 15775
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| Posted: 01 July 2015 at 9:31pm | IP Logged | 7
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SER: I was talking to someone early who said the pattern
of rises and steep falls for Spider-Man makes him more
like Al Bundy than the Peter Parker Lee and Ditko
created. If he was a "hard luck" hero, it was in a way
that most of us were "hard luck" (money problems -- but
that seemed temporary, as he was a top student on track
for a college scholarship, girl problems -- but who
among us didn't have those in high school?)
+++++++++++
As I've been saying for years, now, the sort of problems that Peter has
faced in the last few decades are distinctly unrelatable for just about
anyone. "I'm really a clone!" "Norman Osborn, my seemingly-long-
dead foe, has been manipulating my life from behind the scenes!" "I'm
the latest in a long line of mystical Spider-Men, and a guy ripped out
and ate my eye because of it!!" "I had to make a deal with the Devil to
save my aunt and end my marriage!".
In the last few decades, there's been an unending stream of insane and
tragic events in Peter Parker's life which would surely break a normal
person. Events which go far beyond missing a date or worrying about a
sick loved one.
This seems, in part, due to the Epic-ization of comics. No longer does a
simple tussle between Spider-Man and Electro suffice. Stakes must
always be high, with major cosmic occurrences and life-changing
events.
I think a strong case can be made that many of Spider-Man's greatest
successes and failures are the small ones, the intimate ones.
Indeed, perhaps the most famously triumphant moment in the
character's history is his straining to free himself from some wreckage,
just so he can get to a hospital in time to save his aunt's life. Not saving
the world, or even New York City. Just tossing some rubble off of his
back so he can be free to save a single life. That's it!
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Lars Sandmark
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 05 October 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 3144
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| Posted: 01 July 2015 at 9:44pm | IP Logged | 8
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Well said Greg.
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Lars Sandmark
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 05 October 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 3144
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| Posted: 01 July 2015 at 9:58pm | IP Logged | 9
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Paul Kimball wrote:
"...this is not an easy board to come to being positive about Marvel."
Perhaps you perceive it that way because the majority of us here LOVE Marvel SuperHeroes, and feel strongly about how those characters are treated.
btw, this board gives everyone a fair chance in open discussion. It doesn't take 'bravery' to post opinion here, and no one gets banned for different opinions.
I'm glad Dan came to discuss what we all love.
I have no idea what kind of feedback he's used to, but at least here it's honest.
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Paul Kimball
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 September 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 2168
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| Posted: 01 July 2015 at 10:04pm | IP Logged | 10
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I love marvel superheroes as well but I remember having someone on this
board tell me that I hated art during a disagreement so maybe I'm feeling a
little protective of newcomers. I agree with the honesty though.
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Anthony J Lombardi
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 January 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 9410
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| Posted: 01 July 2015 at 10:15pm | IP Logged | 11
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I'm glad Dan decided to post here. I was glad to read his take on things. I don't like the idea of Peter becoming Tony Stark. But Dan was correct in saying not to judge the story before having read it.
I don't think it would be a bad idea to see Peter in that situation. As long as by story's end. Everything was back to normal. That doesn't happen anymore.
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Charles Valderrama
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 4721
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| Posted: 01 July 2015 at 10:47pm | IP Logged | 12
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Glad to see such a passionate, intelligent and civil discussion here regarding this new chapter in Spidey's history. Still, from the previews I've read, I'm just NOT excited about this new direction where Peter Parker is basically Tony Stark (yawn) running around the world having adventures as his "bodyguard" Spider-Man with a high-tech suit and Spider-Mobile. BTW, whatever happened to the Daily Bugle?? JJJ??? Robbie?? Spidey always had such an interesting supporting cast and the NY setting couldn't be any better.... Why take him global???
Honestly can't say this serves the character - seems like it serves the writer's needs first. For years, Stan and Ditko, Stan and Romita, Conway and Andru managed to write Spider-Man stories that served the character, not their own needs. That's why they're CLASSIC tales and highly regarded in the industry as apposed to the storylines told in the past ten years. Why is it so hard for the "All new, All-different Marvel" to understand?
-C!
P.S.- I miss MARVEL COMICS GROUP.
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