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Robbie Parry
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| Posted: 25 August 2016 at 10:59am | IP Logged | 1
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Thought I'd share this:
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
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| Posted: 25 August 2016 at 11:19am | IP Logged | 2
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"...his friend William Shakespeare..."Whom he somehow failed to mention in anything he wrote!
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Robbie Parry
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| Posted: 25 August 2016 at 11:41am | IP Logged | 3
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When I advocate that someone else wrote Shakespeare (De Vere or Bacon), people misrepresent me: they take ONE argument out of isolation and use that, but I, like anyone here, uses every bit of evidence.
Bit like a court case in some ways: a gun near the crime scene with fingerprints on might not be enough to convict a murderer, but all the other evidence - circumstantial, DNA, history with the deceased, etc. - adds up. From what I've read of the authorship books, there's much evidence.
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Robbie Parry
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| Posted: 22 October 2016 at 9:16am | IP Logged | 4
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Been reading AMAZING AND EXTRAORDINARY FACTS ABOUT SHAKESPEARE (Rydon Publishing). The authorship dispute is mentioned briefly. I doubt I can reveal any major revelations. However, I'll share a couple of things.
Sir Francis Bacon has been dismissed as a candidate for many reasons. One written in the book was that as a career politician and lawyer, he would not have had the time to have written 30 plays and 150 poems.
Coriolanus, Act 1, Scene 1 is said to refer to the theory of blood circulation. William Harvey, Court Physician to James I, was a close friend of Bacon and advocates of Bacon state that the passage refer to that theory. Only thing is that the discovery of blood circulation wasn't made public until 1628, two years after Bacon died.
De Vere remains compelling - what is the reference to the ever-living poet in the foreword to the 1609 edition of The Sonnets? - despite some saying certain plays would have been written after his death.
The Marlowe conspiracy is just too wild for me.
In my view, it's still a toss-up between De Vere and Bacon. Percentage-wise, I'm about 90% in favour of De Vere, 10% in favour of Bacon. Problem with Bacon is that there does seem to much to disagree with.
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Robbie Parry
Byrne Robotics Member
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Posts: 12186
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| Posted: 22 October 2016 at 9:17am | IP Logged | 5
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EDIT: Sorry, stupid mobile phone has posted same post twice.
Edited by Robbie Parry on 22 October 2016 at 9:19am
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
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| Posted: 22 October 2016 at 9:39am | IP Logged | 6
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De Vere remains compelling - what is the reference to the ever-living poet in the foreword to the 1609 edition of The Sonnets? - despite some saying certain plays would have been written after his death.•• As I have noted before, there are Stratfordians who seem to want the works of Shakespeare to be the Elizabethan version of LAW & ORDER, with each tale "rip't from the headlines." However, given the varied history of how the works came to be transcribed, there is no way to be sure at all just when they were actually written. The only records we have is of when they were first performed. Add to this the habit of actors to ad lib, and a "contemporary reference" may be just that, something somebody threw in to seem "current". I've mentioned, for example, that a few years ago I saw a performance of THE MIKADO, by Gilbert and Sullivan, in which the Executioner's song included a reference to Rubicks Cubes, something not invented until long after G&S were long gone. Oxfordians have also noted that scientific references seem to peter out around 1604, when De Vere died. Add to this the fact that even Stratfordians admit the later works are not "pure" -- that "Shakespeare" might have been editing or even outright plagiarizing* earlier works by others -- and De Vere's "active" period is considerably extended. _____________ * One of the most curious aspects of the Authorship Question is how many Stratfordians cheerfully embrace their Bard as a plagiarist rather than acknowledge that he MIGHT be somebody other than the Stratford Man.
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Robbie Parry
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| Posted: 22 October 2016 at 4:20pm | IP Logged | 7
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However, given the varied history of how the works came to be transcribed, there is no way to be sure at all just when they were actually written. The only records we have is of when they were first performed.
***
This is it. I am finding some advocates of the Stratford Man are using 'evidence' of dates. "Oh, it couldn't be De Vere because this was written on that date. Can't be Bacon as he died on this date and the play was written on that date, etc."
Some seem to view such comments as akin to a "smoking gun" - but as you stated, the only records we have is of when they were first performed.
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Petter Myhr Ness
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| Posted: 23 October 2016 at 2:48am | IP Logged | 8
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Stratfordians should be very careful using evidence of dates, because the traditional dating of the plays is questionable in itself, isn't it?
There are contemporary references to performances of HAMLET before Shakespeare's play is believed to be written. But rather than adjust the dating of the play, which would conflict with the Stratford Man's biography, it is presumed that it's ANOTHER play called HAMLET (or Ur-Hamlet as it's called). Of course, no evidence of this other play exists...
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John Byrne
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| Posted: 23 October 2016 at 7:20am | IP Logged | 9
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One of the things that turned me into an Oxfordian was the realization that the Stratfordians bend and twist and embellish the data to make it fit their man, while just following the trail as it exists is what led to Oxford.
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Robbie Parry
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| Posted: 23 October 2016 at 7:44am | IP Logged | 10
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One of the things that turned me into an Oxfordian was the realization that the Stratfordians bend and twist and embellish the data to make it fit their man, while just following the trail as it exists is what led to Oxford.
***
This is what the brief sections in that book have stated. Yes, there may be some twisting by other sides (we can all be biased), but nothing that can't be reconciled. Their "smoking guns" are usually arbitrary dates, i.e. De Vere could not possibly have written them because he died in 1604 and this or that play was written in (choose a year).
The Marlowe conspiracy idea is fun - can we have an IDW series based on that, please? - but as the book states, it would have required Marlowe to continue the charade for twenty years. It's great fun to read about, but I "file" it along with other 'fun' stuff such as Lewis Carroll supposedly being Jack the Ripper!
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John Byrne
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| Posted: 23 October 2016 at 7:51am | IP Logged | 11
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Marlowe would also have needed to turn into a better writer after faking his own death!
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Cory Vandernet
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| Posted: 23 October 2016 at 8:05pm | IP Logged | 12
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https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2016/oct/23/christopher- marlowe-credited-as-one-of-shakespeares-co-writers
Apparently Marlowe is going to get co-writer credit for Henry VI Parts 1,2&3
Edited by Cory Vandernet on 23 October 2016 at 8:52pm
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Topic Closed)
