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Topic: OT: Candidates For Shakespeare Authorship (Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post ReplyPost New Topic
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Robbie Parry
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Posted: 08 September 2015 at 1:58pm | IP Logged | 1  

Any site you check will have a beginning point. Usually clicking "Home" on any page will take you to the aims and objectives of that website. Many have links to other sites. And in the case of this debate, all sites will have a heading such as "Why the authorship question?" or "What is the authorship question?" 
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Robbie Parry
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Posted: 10 September 2015 at 5:25pm | IP Logged | 2  

Was reading up on the case for Roger Manners, 5th Earl of Rutland, being a candidate for authorship.

This eccentric aristocrat enveloped his own person and his literary activities in mystery and secrecy. He never published anything in his own name, preferring to ascribe the authorship ofhis works to "live masks," i.e. semiliterate people like William Shakespere from Stratford-upon-Avon and Thomas Coryate from Odcombe. This was his, his wife's and a few friends' Grand Game, Theatre in Life.

Today we finally have a multitude of positively established facts witnessing beyond any doubt tothe Earl of Rutland's direct connection with the Shakespeare oeuvre. For instance, the Belvoir Castle archives keep a variant of a chant from Twelfth Night, written in the Earl of Rutland's hand, and a unique record of the Castle's steward about payment of money to Shakespeare.

The scene of some Shakespeare's plays is laid in the very towns of Northern Italy that Rutland had earlier visited during his European travels. The exact and accurate Danish realities appeared in Hamlet only after the Earl's trip to Denmark. The mysterious "Shake-Speare" ceased his creative work at the very same time when Roger Manners, the 5th Earl of Rutland, and his wife passed away in 1612 (in quick succession).

Source: http://shakespeareanauthorshiptrust.org.uk/pdf/roger_manners .pdf

EDIT: Link made active


Edited by Robbie Parry on 10 September 2015 at 5:26pm
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Mark Haslett
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Posted: 10 September 2015 at 5:48pm | IP Logged | 3  

Roger Manners it is then.

Next!
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John Byrne
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Posted: 10 September 2015 at 6:43pm | IP Logged | 4  

Impressive credentials for Manners, but I still feel DeVere has the stronger case.
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Robbie Parry
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Posted: 11 September 2015 at 4:06am | IP Logged | 5  

They are impressive, I admit.

I'm a "whippersnapper" who's only been studying this since March of 2015. There are some candidates who seem circumstantial, whereas others aren't.

I think, based on the reading, I'm leaning towards De Vere or Francis Bacon. Possibly just a tad more in favour of De Vere.

I'd certainly feel comfortable, after six months of reading, to state that there is no way the Stratford man wrote those books.
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Brad Teschner
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Posted: 11 September 2015 at 12:43pm | IP Logged | 6  

I'm just about the furthest thing from a Shakespeare expert so I've been
skimming right past this thread in the main forum page (way out of my
element), but until now I could've sworn the topic's title was "Canadians
For Shakespeare Authorship."

Also odd that I didn't find that at all strange enough to stop in for a
glance until now!
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John Byrne
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Posted: 11 September 2015 at 1:07pm | IP Logged | 7  

I'd certainly feel comfortable, after six months of reading, to state that there is no way the Stratford man wrote those books.

•••

Right there is the most important part of the battle. Various candidates -- including DeVere -- may remain eternally unconvincing to most folk, but an honest appraisal of his history must lead one to the conclusion that Stratford Will is no more likely!

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Robbie Parry
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Posted: 11 September 2015 at 1:14pm | IP Logged | 8  

Indeed.

I often take the "courtroom approach". Nothing can be conclusively proven 100%. Everything is circumstantial. A jury cannot be put in a time machine and taken back to the scene of the crime. There has to be some doubt in any human being's head. And there has to be a leap of faith here and there.

So whether it's this or any other debate, one has to appreciate that some of it will be circumstantial. None of us can travel back to that period - but if we take the "jury approach", it's about an accumulation of facts. If someone is on trial for murder or anything, we listen, read and try and tie it together.

Six months is not a long time to read up/study on a subject - but after being my own personal "jury" for that time, it's what led me to believe it could not be the Stratford man. No way.
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Sabrina Feldman
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Posted: 12 September 2015 at 6:35pm | IP Logged | 9  

One thing that always surprises me is that traditional Shakespeare scholars, who claim to believe in the sanctity of title page evidence, really don't when it comes to the 'apocryphal' Shakespeare plays and Shakespearean 'bad quartos.'

There’s an old Stratfordian joke that goes like this: "Shakespeare’s plays weren’t actually written by Shakespeare. They were written by some other guy named Shakespeare.” The funny thing is, there could very well have been “some other guy named Shakespeare.” According to title page evidence and other usually reliable forms of authorship evidence, this other William Shakespeare wrote, adapted, or co-authored around a dozen surviving plays: The Taming of A Shrew, The Troublesome Reign of King John, Fair Em, Locrine, Mucedorus, The Merry Devil of Edmonton, Thomas Lord Cromwell, The Puritan,The London Prodigal, A Yorkshire Tragedy, The Birth of Merlin, and perhaps Double Falsehood (originally titled Cardenio). These plays are usually assigned to the “Shakespeare Apocrypha,” but they were evidently accepted as authentic Shakespeare plays by William’s contemporaries and near-contemporaries even though they weren’t printed in the First Folio. The “other Shakespeare” was also credited with writing six or so Shakespearean 'bad quartos,' shorter and poetically inferior adaptations of six canonical plays. There are no contemporary records indicating that anyone other than William Shakespeare wrote these apocryphal plays and bad quartos, at least as a co-author or play reviser.

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John Byrne
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Posted: 12 September 2015 at 6:45pm | IP Logged | 10  

All that fits nicely with the notion of "William Shakespeare" as a "brand". The people want plays by Shakespeare, so they are GIVEN plays by Shakespeare.

After all, what's in a name....?

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Eric Ladd
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Posted: 13 September 2015 at 5:33am | IP Logged | 11  

It's been awhile, but if I remember correctly, some or all off the bad quartos can be attributed to actors. The evidence being that some parts in the quartos are a perfect match to the corresponding First Folio, but other parts seem way off presumably because the actor that plagiarized was off on a costume or scene change. Without the notion of copyright and the cost of a scribe, actors were given only their parts written down on paper. There were few or perhaps only one copy of the play, presumably in the theater's care. If an actor left the company to travel and perform he might just help another theatre to produce a popular Shakespeare play from London. Thus the presence of bad quartos.

The idea that there was "another man named Shakespeare" is more likely just another man able to remember and write out some Shakespeare.
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Michael Penn
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Posted: 13 September 2015 at 5:35am | IP Logged | 12  

The First Folio itself adds to the complexity rather than provides clarity. It has the patina of authority, and it may indeed possess that, but upon even shallow review one immediately sees there's a deeper, undisclosed story behind both it and Shakespeare. One does not need to be a Doubter to acknowledge that -- but doubting certainly can't be said not to fit the what the Folio does and does not tell us either!
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