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Robert Lloyd
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 October 2013
Location: United States
Posts: 238
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| Posted: 11 October 2015 at 11:57pm | IP Logged | 1
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I can tell you right now after seeing the Superman cover and now the Batman drawing that is very distorted, I'm moving on to something else.
To me the Dark Knight ended in the last panel when he decides to retire and train all the new recruits in the Bat Cave.
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James Woodcock
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 September 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 7655
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| Posted: 12 October 2015 at 12:30am | IP Logged | 2
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While the interiors look good, that cover does not IMHO. Look at it this way - is this not similar to Rob Liefield's Captain America with the boobs pointing at the reader?
Yes, Frank can draw way, way better than Liefield, but just not this picture.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132401
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| Posted: 12 October 2015 at 4:35am | IP Logged | 3
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I've mentioned on another blog somewhere that art (to me - this is my opinion only) is the demonstration or creation of something....anything...that took the artist years of practice to hone their skills to be able craft the art in the first place.••• We'll have to agree to disagree. Andy Warhol is supposed to have said art is "whatever you can get away with," and while I would not go that far I would insist that a child scrawling pictures with crayons and Michelangelo painting the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel are both producing art. Experience produces different skill levels, but it has no effect on whether something is "art."
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Rick Senger
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 9652
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| Posted: 12 October 2015 at 8:10am | IP Logged | 4
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Miller knows the "rules" and intentionally breaks them *****
Picasso could and did draw more realistically early on, but I still can't get into cubism. Like a lot of his other stuff, but not cubism. That's me.
Miller seems to be making a statement about Superman as a musclebound clod who talks with his fists. That would be fine if this was Superman, but Superman is more nuanced than that. To me this is Frank trolling for a reaction and sometimes that's interesting but in this case I'm weary.
Edited by Rick Senger on 12 October 2015 at 8:11am
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132401
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| Posted: 12 October 2015 at 9:12am | IP Logged | 5
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Miller seems to be making a statement about Superman as a musclebound clod who talks with his fists. That would be fine if this was Superman, but Superman is more nuanced than that. To me this is Frank trolling for a reaction and sometimes that's interesting but in this case I'm weary.•• DKR gave us a Superman who was a government stooge, and who had actually torn off Green Arrow's arm. Now Frank is drawing him to look the part.
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Michael Penn
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 April 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 12466
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| Posted: 12 October 2015 at 9:46am | IP Logged | 6
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If this new Miller Superman were going to be the Superman, the one which my little kids would exclusively learn from the comics, then -- no -- I would not like it all. But if this would be just a temporary project, then -- OK -- I'm alright with it.
None of that matters because my mind can only fathom the way comicbooks were published, were drawn and written, on-model from, at the most recent, about 30 years ago. That world is long, long gone.
So, as the young folk say, "it's all good."
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Peter Martin
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 March 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 15838
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| Posted: 12 October 2015 at 11:10am | IP Logged | 7
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Here's a take on the Dark Knight by Uncle Walt for a variant cover for DK3:
Makes me think it would have been very interesting to have seen Walt do the whole thing.
Edited by Peter Martin on 12 October 2015 at 11:10am
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Robert LaGuardia
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 15 November 2007
Location: United States
Posts: 1296
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| Posted: 12 October 2015 at 11:39am | IP Logged | 8
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Rick Senger-
"Picasso could and did draw more realistically early on, but I still can't
get into cubism. Like a lot of his other stuff, but not cubism"
---
Right, that was my point. No one has to like it but it's not fair to say that
'Miller can't draw anymore'. He's making choices that may not line up
with what you want to see, but it's still a conscious choice. I don't like
that Simonson Batman above but I would never say that Simonson is a
bad artist.
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Joe Boster
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 29 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 3160
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| Posted: 12 October 2015 at 12:38pm | IP Logged | 9
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So DK prequel must be the project that pulled him off of Superman. Thrilled for all the DK projects. Love all the Miller art shown on this thread. The superman cover really draws me in and makes me want to read it.
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Brian Skelley
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 14 February 2012
Location: United States
Posts: 231
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| Posted: 12 October 2015 at 12:47pm | IP Logged | 10
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Michael Penn wrote:
| If this new Miller Superman were going to be the Superman, the one which my little kids would exclusively learn from the comics, then -- no -- I would not like it all. But if this would be just a temporary project, then -- OK -- I'm alright with it. |
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I've seen a quite a few people upset with this drawing because they felt this is the main/important version of Superman, which has confused me a bit. I've always thought (except when it was first released) that DK was always an "Elseworlds" story. I never understood anyone being upset with changes in Elseworlds stories as that's the point of them.
Having said that, I also get that DC will probably grim up Superman again if this sells. There's an amusing cycle that happens with comics and fans. Marvel/DC tells everyone "This event will change everything forever" to hype the sales, and everyone believes them only to see it change back again. The new people I can understand, but I see that with people my age who've been collecting as long/longer than I have.
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Fred J Chamberlain
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 30 August 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 4020
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| Posted: 12 October 2015 at 2:07pm | IP Logged | 11
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That Simonson cover is amazing.
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Robert Shepherd
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 30 March 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 1268
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| Posted: 12 October 2015 at 3:27pm | IP Logged | 12
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I would insist that a child scrawling pictures with crayons and Michelangelo painting the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel are both producing art. Experience produces different skill levels, but it has no effect on whether something is "art." ---- Great points. So I would alter my statements to say art can be anything, while an artist is one who spends years honing his/her craft. Semantics, sure, but I don't think the average layman is an "artist" until they demonstrate some level of higher skill and knowledge. You can't just pick up a pencil and call yourself an artist just like you can't pick up a legal book and call yourself a lawyer. Well...you can of course, but that doesn't make it so. Maybe there is a better way to say what I'm trying to say, but I can't think of it.
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