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James Reese
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 18 July 2015
Location: United States
Posts: 434
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| Posted: 17 November 2015 at 6:13pm | IP Logged | 1
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I hope you don't consider me a rightist. I'm not a fan of either party or their ideologies. I'm at the point where saying Obama is better than Bush is like saying getting punched in the face is better than getting kicked in the nuts. They both suck.
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Jason Czeskleba
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 30 April 2004
Posts: 4548
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| Posted: 17 November 2015 at 8:16pm | IP Logged | 2
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James Reese wrote:
| Democrats are criticizing Obama on this. Diane Feinstein criticized him in today's Washington Post saying ISIS is not contained and is growing in Syria and Iraq. |
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Okay, I guess it's not just Republicans that believe talking tough will make them look good. I looked up her comments, and she seems to be advocating sending ground troops into the region. Are we truly ready as a country to invade Syria and Iraq, overthrow their governments, and then set up occupying governments that will require heavy US troop presence for decades (if not forever) to maintain stability? Because ground troops are not going to do any good unless we go all in and do just that. And that's not even getting into how Russia would react if we pursued such a plan. Nor does it account for the fact that even if we did all that, there would still be ISIS terrorist scattered all across the world committing terrorists acts. Terrorism can't be wiped out just by invading one country where many of the terrorists are based, and we can't invade them all, can we?
After something like Paris, it's easy to understand the desire to Do Something immediately. But this isn't a situation where there is a simple and obvious "something" that will solve the problem. And rushing into action just to gratify the urge do something is foolish.
Edited by Jason Czeskleba on 17 November 2015 at 8:17pm
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Michael Roberts
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 14812
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| Posted: 17 November 2015 at 8:33pm | IP Logged | 3
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Dianne Feinstein has always been hawkish on the issues of the military
and national security. This is just her being consistent.
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James Reese
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 18 July 2015
Location: United States
Posts: 434
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| Posted: 17 November 2015 at 8:41pm | IP Logged | 4
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The problem we had/have with Syria is we want to get rid of Assad and then put somebody? in charge and then get ISIS out. The Russians want to stop the rebels we are trying to help oust Assad and then get ISIS out. Given the last 3 weeks is this still the case? I really don't know. I hope not. The civilized world needs to work together in figuring out how to solve this problem together. Its the only way. One thing is certain, the United States should get out of the overthrowing government and putting in figureheads we can control business. Uncle Sam is batting .000 on that strategy.
Edited by James Reese on 17 November 2015 at 8:42pm
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Steven Myers
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 10 June 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 5625
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| Posted: 17 November 2015 at 9:32pm | IP Logged | 5
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If the refugees looked at the statistics of how many Americans kill people in this country every year, they might not want to come here! (Of course, we could make it safer if we gave each refugee a gun and ammo when they arrive. With that many armed people about, no one would ever commit an attack here!)
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Kevin Hagerman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 15 April 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 17996
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| Posted: 18 November 2015 at 12:39am | IP Logged | 6
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will require heavy US troop presence for decades (if not forever) to maintain stability? ------- That's essentially it. We gave Saudi Arabia generations to foment against us, and we'll be the Great Satan for generations to come unless we intend to truly nation build (of course, we did a good deal of great sataning over there our ownselves). But we always think short term in the ME. Must be the oil.
Edited by Kevin Hagerman on 18 November 2015 at 12:41am
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Neil Lindholm
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 January 2005
Location: China
Posts: 4940
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| Posted: 18 November 2015 at 12:46am | IP Logged | 7
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The US did a pretty damn good job at turning around two of the biggest rogue nations in the past, Germany and Japan. They should follow that playbook.
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Matt Reed
Byrne Robotics Security
Robotmod
Joined: 16 April 2004
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| Posted: 18 November 2015 at 12:55am | IP Logged | 8
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Neil Lindholm wrote:
| The US did a pretty damn good job at turning around two of the biggest rogue nations in the past, Germany and Japan. They should follow that playbook. |
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Different time. ISIS isn't a nation. As has been said in this thread, it's not centrally located in any place approximating a capitol. That's what makes it different from previous powers and so damn frustrating to fight. They are cells operating in various places all over the Middle East and, as witnessed by the attacks in Paris, gaining traction with home-grown sympathizers. This isn't Berlin and it's not Tokyo.
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Jason Czeskleba
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 30 April 2004
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| Posted: 18 November 2015 at 12:48pm | IP Logged | 9
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Exactly. If we've learned anything in the past 15 years, it's that invading a country in which terrorists are based is not an effective way to stop terrorism. It's whack-a-mole... you stamp it down in one country, and it arises in another.
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Joe Zhang
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 12857
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| Posted: 18 November 2015 at 5:52pm | IP Logged | 10
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"The US did a pretty damn good job at turning around two of the biggest rogue nations in the past, Germany and Japan. They should follow that playbook. "
Uh, have you been asleep for the past fifteen years?
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Stephen Robinson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 5835
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| Posted: 18 November 2015 at 7:07pm | IP Logged | 11
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MATT: This isn't Berlin and it's not Tokyo.
SER: And although it's not apples to apples, the U.S. and its allies defeated
both Germany and Japan in half a decade. The U.S. has been fighting some
form of radical terrorism for almost fifteen years. Imagine if we were still
contending with Nazis in the mid 1950s!
"War" implies a political objective of sorts that can either be achieved or
defeated: Germany, Japan, Soviet Union... those wars all fit into this. I
sometimes wonder if a war on "terrorism" is not like a war on "crime." You
will never eradicate crime but you can secure your home from criminals and
dealt decisively with anyone who attempts to violate your home and
property or threaten your family.
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Joe Zhang
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
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| Posted: 18 November 2015 at 8:59pm | IP Logged | 12
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Occupying Syria and/or Iraq with Western or U.N. troops is not going to defeat ISIS. They will always have significant support from the Muslim world for the simple reason that ISIS prevents non-Sunni, non-Arab peoples from dominating northern Arabia. Until Muslims abandon their hard-line, bigoted attitudes towards each other, there will be no peace in the Middle East. They will be killing each other, and people outside the region, for generations.
In other words, the way I see it, the actual conflict is not between Islam and the West, but Islam with itself. Getting involved deeper in that fight forces the West to pick sides, which makes things worse.
Edited by Joe Zhang on 18 November 2015 at 9:01pm
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Topic Closed)
