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Shane Matlock
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 August 2012
Location: United States
Posts: 1760
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| Posted: 26 June 2016 at 2:55pm | IP Logged | 1
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Thanks, Michael. Some beautiful art on that book, but, man, Morrison does not get the FF.
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Robert LaGuardia
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 15 November 2007
Location: United States
Posts: 1296
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| Posted: 26 June 2016 at 3:00pm | IP Logged | 2
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Reed also stretched his brain in Earth X.
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Shane Matlock
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 August 2012
Location: United States
Posts: 1760
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| Posted: 26 June 2016 at 3:02pm | IP Logged | 3
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I don't remember that happening in Earth X. I think my strongest memory of Earth X is that scene with Galactus fighting the Celestials over New York City. I don't think John Paul Leon has ever drawn anything better than he did that.
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Dale Lerette
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 24 March 2010
Location: Canada
Posts: 750
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| Posted: 26 June 2016 at 5:52pm | IP Logged | 4
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I think in general Dr. Doom is more intelligent and knowledgeable than Mr. Fantastic. Dr. Doom made a time platform for example and I am uncertain if Mr. Fantastic has made anything to that degree of sophistication. I think "time travel" is fairly top-notch innovation and not many others n the MU have access to it like Dr. Doom.
Doom's arrogance and vanity seems to be his stumbling block though. He appears to be his own worst enemy because he's a victim of his own ego. In addition to this he seems to get lost in his own contingency plans and has more than once fallen victim to his own machinations.
Mr. Fantastic doesn't seem to suffer from this at all. With Mr. Fantastic having a real family and child I think this works to his advantage. He seems to be grounded in honest intentions to take care of others he cares for. Reed thinks things through carefully for the good of others.
Dr. Doom seems to care for no one, except those he can manipulate in some way for his own ambitions. Even his own concern for his citizens may be a thinly-veiled fear of himself failing as a leader in the eyes of the world.
Edited by Dale Lerette on 26 June 2016 at 5:54pm
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Kevin Hagerman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 15 April 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 17997
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| Posted: 26 June 2016 at 10:00pm | IP Logged | 5
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Of course, if you think about it the difference between their intellects is probably the same as the difference between any random pair of ants. Either one of them can help me with my homework!
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Joseph Gauthier
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 11 March 2009
Posts: 1415
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| Posted: 26 June 2016 at 11:39pm | IP Logged | 6
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Mr. Fantastic doesn't seem to suffer from this at all.
I don't know if this is completely true, we are talking about a man who was so sure of himself that he took his best friend, his girlfriend and his girlfriend's kid brother up in an unproven rocket flight to the stars!
I think the real difference between Reed and Doom is that Reed is humbled by, and learns from his mistakes, whereas Doom is not, and does not. As for why that is? I suspect it's because Reed can empathize with others, whereas Doom can not; to Reed the pain of failure is found in the cost to others, to Doom it is only found in the cost to himself.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 27 June 2016 at 5:35am | IP Logged | 7
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Mr. Fantastic doesn't seem to suffer from this at all.+++ I don't know if this is completely true, we are talking about a man who was so sure of himself that he took his best friend, his girlfriend and his girlfriend's kid brother up in an unproven rocket flight to the stars! •• The rocket was not unproven. The unknown in that scenario was what might be encountered above the Earth's protective atmosphere. And even that has been tweaked over the years, to provide something unexpected (a spike in cosmic ray levels), and so explain why our astronauts were not returning from space with superpowers. (During my time on FF, I tweaked it further, establishing that the rush to the stars was pushed by the government being about to cut funding.)
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Joseph Gauthier
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 11 March 2009
Posts: 1415
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| Posted: 27 June 2016 at 9:47am | IP Logged | 8
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Have I been reading it wrong? I thought they were aware of the presence of the cosmic rays, and that the question was whether or not the rocket's shielding was heavy enough to protect the occupants from their unknown effects.
Either way, I suppose, the point remains the same: Reed was so sure of himself and of his work that he not only risked his own safety on that belief, but also Ben's, Sue's and Johnny's as well. Not callously, of course, but rather in the same way a person risks his loved ones by taking them for a drive in a car- only a rocket to the stars is not the same as a drive into town.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
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| Posted: 27 June 2016 at 11:47am | IP Logged | 9
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They were aware of the cosmic rays. Ben argues against the flight because "nobody knows" what they can do. Reed is convinced that his shieldeding is strong enough, which presumably meant he had tested it to his satisfaction. In those early years, Stan and Jack were content with "he was wrong," a trope common to the kind of space opera they were producing. (Even the Hero+Best Friend+Hero's Girlfriend had roots in the Pulps.). But, as noted, this had to be tweaked as more and more Americans came back from space without super powers.
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Greg Woronchak
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Joined: 04 September 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 1631
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| Posted: 27 June 2016 at 12:50pm | IP Logged | 10
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I'm surprised Marvel hasn't come up with a convoluted origin for those cosmic rays. 'What we thought we knew was all wrong!!!!'
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132389
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| Posted: 27 June 2016 at 2:15pm | IP Logged | 11
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Well, thanks to Mark Gruenwald using his editorial post on OHOTMU to insert stuff into other editors books, we now know that the cosmic ray event was a "Forbush Maximum."A real thing, as it turns out, but in context.....
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Stevie Thomas
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Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 153
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| Posted: 27 June 2016 at 4:20pm | IP Logged | 12
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JB,
We know that Doom is smarter than Reed, but does Doom know that? Why the obsession with Reed unless he believes him to be an intellectual rival?
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Topic Closed)
