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Eric Sofer
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 31 January 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 4789
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| Posted: 23 July 2016 at 8:35am | IP Logged | 1
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Mr. Byrne is absolutely right. No one talks about the Civil War battle where they battled with haunches of cattle vs frozen leg of lamb.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132299
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| Posted: 23 July 2016 at 8:46am | IP Logged | 2
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To repeat, there are only two products which, when used correctly, kill people. One is guns, the other is tobacco. Tobacco is fiercely regulated. Why not guns?
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Robbie Parry
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 June 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 12186
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| Posted: 23 July 2016 at 10:53am | IP Logged | 3
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But what those who site these, and others, are so relentlessly ignoring is that none of these things were DESIGNED to kill people. That is not their FUNCTION.
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Exactly.
I believe almost anything can be used as a weapon. There are a few things that couldn't be used as weapons (a squeegee, for instance), but most things can kill. A flatscreen TV could kill if you kept hitting someone on the head with it; a skipping rope could kill in the wrong hands; and I'm sure a hammer could kill.
But, as Mr Byrne stated, none of those things are designed to kill. And as we've discussed here before, it's about damage done in a certain amount of time. I am reasonably confident that if a guy entered a nightclub with a hammer, there's a 99% chance he could be disarmed without anyone being killed; when a shooter enters a nightclub, there's a tragic 99% chance that at least a third or half (or whatever) will be killed before the gunman is stopped.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132299
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| Posted: 23 July 2016 at 11:03am | IP Logged | 4
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This is something the NRA ignore with their more guns = greater safety lunacy. If the Orlando killer had walked in with a baseball bat or a chainsaw, the odds are he would have been stopped before anyone was killed. Guns responding to guns are going to produce injuries and death immediately. Any reasonable, rational person should understand this. The true insanity, of course, is that anyone with clout who makes this statement may very well get shot by someone protecting his own "rights." This is something I've mentioned before: gun owner believe their "right" to arm themselves supercedes the rights of others to be alive.
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Robbie Parry
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 June 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 12186
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| Posted: 23 July 2016 at 11:09am | IP Logged | 5
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If the Orlando killer had walked in with a baseball bat or a chainsaw, the odds are he would have been stopped before anyone was killed.
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I have judo skills and would feel my chances are better against a baseball bat or chainsaw than a gun.
As I have tried explaining to some, it's not an A-Team style scenario where the good guys will take out each bad guy. More guns could cause even more civilian deaths.
A Commander in the Metropolitan Police tweeted this recently:
Yes, running, hiding or following that advice isn't 100% foolproof. You could still get shot and killed. But even though he is speaking from a British perspective (where we don't routinely carry arms), I can see the logic in some of that. More logic than a "gunfight at the OK Corral" scenario which might lead to more bloodshed.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132299
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| Posted: 23 July 2016 at 11:11am | IP Logged | 6
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These police shootings are not the fault of the police. They are the fault of our national Gun Mentality. A mentality in which every cop, when s/he goes to work, knows that ANYONE could pull out a gun and SHOOT HIM/HER. A sweet little old granny lady, or a truant five year old, each could be armed and ready to shoot. This forces the police into the role of an occupying army, and the stress of operating in that environment causes disasters to happen. Want the police to stop shooting people? Take away EVERYONE ELSE'S guns.
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Bill Collins
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 May 2005
Location: England
Posts: 11249
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| Posted: 23 July 2016 at 11:24am | IP Logged | 7
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I remember going to Orlando about 10 or so years ago,as we came in to land,there was an announcement that as of the 1st of that month (Oct 2003 or 2005 i think) there was a new Florida state law that if a member of the public felt threatened,they were within their rights to shoot you,we were told not to get involved in road rage incidents etc for our own safety! Coming from the U.K. that was scary!
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132299
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| Posted: 23 July 2016 at 11:34am | IP Logged | 8
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"Felt threatened."Note to self, never again visit Florida.
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Robbie Parry
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 June 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 12186
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| Posted: 23 July 2016 at 11:50am | IP Logged | 9
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I plan to visit the US one day. So far, New York City, Orlando, Miami, Dallas, Houston, Detroit and New Orleans are on my list.
I guess that list just dropped two destinations...
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Brian Miller
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 28 July 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 30900
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| Posted: 23 July 2016 at 11:59am | IP Logged | 10
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...gun owner believe their "right" to arm themselves supercedes the rights of others to be alive.
************
Their GOD GIVEN right.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 23 July 2016 at 12:03pm | IP Logged | 11
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Religious folk assume our right to life comes from God, but nothing in the Constitution specifically identifies gun ownership as "God given." Otherwise, to borrow a line from TIME BANDITS, God would have started with lasers, Day One!
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Eric Sofer
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 31 January 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 4789
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| Posted: 24 July 2016 at 6:58am | IP Logged | 12
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A question has occurred to me... in all these gun shootings, has anyone ever actually been armed and stopped the shooters? Do we know of a case where NRA worshippers have been at one of these scenarios and been able to do anything effective?
Also - how fast can people react? Even if there were a room full of gun possessors, if a lunatic came in and starting shooting right away, how fast could someone get their gun, aim, and hit only the shooter? Seems that someone would get killed, no matter what. Unless people had their guns drawn and aimed at every single person who came in. Which sounds even crazier to me.
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